Blues Brothers Everton Podcast
Blues Brothers Everton Podcast
Ndiaye or Grealish, Moyes cup comments and Bournemouth preview.
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As the transfer window prepares to slam shut, we debate whether we'd rather see Ndiaye or Grealish in an Everton shirt come next week, and react to Moyes' claim that Everton need to choose between a cup run or avoiding relegation. No, seriously, he said that.
Welcome Back And Weekend Context
SPEAKER_00Welcome to episode 93 of the Blues Brothers Everton podcast. Great to be back before we head to play Bournemouth. We're going from one team last week who we always beat to a team tomorrow that we never beat. So we're report we're recording this on Friday. Ben and Adam are here. Andy can't make it. Adam, how are you doing?
SPEAKER_02I'm good, thanks. After the World Cup uh and a little break. But yeah, I'm good. Thanks. How are you?
SPEAKER_00I'm very, very well. I heard you were telling me earlier when it started. I'm in New York, you're at home in England. It started raining. It rained. It rained.
SPEAKER_02It rained spectacularly. We had, I think, I don't know if we had a name storm, but it was pretty, it was pretty spectacular last night.
SPEAKER_00Probably storm, thank fuck for that, I would imagine. Ben, how are you doing? Ben, you're also still in England, right?
SPEAKER_01I am still in England. We had a similar storm, thank fuck for that overnight. Um, so it was uh it's good because all the all the grass that is brown will hopefully now um start to look a bit a bit greener instead. Um you say we never beat Bournemouth. We did actually beat them last year without wanting to skip.
SPEAKER_00I was thinking that as I said it actually. But I sort of have this view in my mind that like a real bogey team for us, which you think from that one season where they did us like in the last two minutes twice. Yeah, so but yes, no, we did that's absolutely right. We did beat, we did beat them last year. Very good performance last year as well. Um, all right, so we're gonna talk a little bit. We'll record this Friday before the Bournemouth game. I'm sure you're listening to it just before that game on Saturday. So thinking good thoughts for that. We'll get to talking about Bournemouth, and we're gonna talk about transfers as well because the transfer window, does it slam shut on Monday? Is that how how we're doing it this year? I can't I haven't got Tuesday, I think, because Monday's a bank holiday. Monday's a bank holiday, right? Great. So so it slams shut in a few days. Lots to talk about there as we're recording this. I think Man City have just finished playing, I think, and Grealish wasn't in the squad, so we'll talk about that. But first, we've played two games. We played Palace, we won. We played Preston, we won. It's easy, this football thing,
Crystal Palace Win First Impressions
SPEAKER_00isn't it? Uh Ben, you were at the Palace game, so I'll start with you. Uh talk us through what that was like.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, it was it was nice to be back at Hill Dickinson. We do, I can confirm, we do have padded seats now. The seats are indeed only on the bottom though, not on the back, which was confusing. Um that's a that's a next season upgrade. I mean, you've got to give them some time, yeah. Yeah, exactly. So um no, it was it was a good it was a good performance once we sort of got the first 15-20 minutes out of the way, where we kind of looked a bit all over the place. We only stayed in the game because Pixford made a save of the season contender in game week one, and um Mateta missed an absolute sitter, um, which he should have he should have scored, but he somehow contrived to hit again to the post. But once we got through that, and once we scored the the first goal, it was kind of plain sailing relatively from from then. Palace didn't really create a lot, especially in the second half. Um I mean, without wanting to sort of go through the whole sort of whole team defensively, we were all over the place in the first 15-20 minutes. I think Merlin roll at right back might work, but positionally, he was he was he was it was clear he wasn't a he's clear he's not a right back if you look at how he's how he positioned himself um defensively. Tarkovsky had a very, very, very shaky um first 20-25 minutes. Got better as we went on, but he was not his normal self, which was concerning. I think the the standout was the you know, the the central midfield and um and then Tyree George on the left, you know, Hayden Hackney looks like a real player, you know, just calm on the ball, composed, um always looking to play forward, incisive in his passing. I think the what we suffered from slightly, and this is partly why I think we were um defensively a bit open in the first 20 minutes, is that I don't think Hackney and Armstrong, who was also excellent overall, I don't think they work as a two because they both want to progress and they both want to go forward. So I think that's where a Christian Norgard or a James Garner actually operating more as a genuine holding uh midfielder would suit us better because there were times where you could just see that Jewsbury Hall was obviously going to play further forward, and Acney and Armstrong were both kind of chasing the ball, and then there ended up being this big hole in front of the centre backs, and Palace were playing a front two, which means that neither Tarkovsky or Branthwaite could step into that hole because they had a man to mark. So that left that left a bit of a gap to exploit. Fortunately, the player Palace had in that position to exploit it was Dwight McNeil. So um nothing tremendous came came of it. Um but then the other thing to mention is Tyreek George, who was um you know didn't didn't do anything from a goals or assists point of view, but um was looked very dangerous, very effective in terms of getting beating his man and and to creating you know that little bit of sparkle that I think we've sometimes missed. So yeah, overall um great second half, especially, like really controlled the game, ideal start to the season to get a clean sheet and and and come away with a with a 2-0 win. And obviously, Tieno Barry got on the score sheet early in the season and then followed that up in midweek with a with a hat trick. So I think if he carries on scoring at that rate, he's a 60 goal a season striker, right?
SPEAKER_00That's that's how this works. That's how that that's how maths works, yeah. And it's issues because of barrier calls, all these goals are pretty simple goals, though he's taking them well, but of course it shows we're putting him in those, he's getting in those positions and we're giving him chances, right? That's the that's uh it's always chance generation. It's like if you look at our stats from last year, we were one of the lowest scoring teams in the league, but it wasn't because our strikers were terrible, we just weren't we didn't create chances. I mean, that was that was the real problem.
SPEAKER_01Well, and if you think back to the the Calvert Lewin under Ancelotti season, which was Calvert Lewin's best season for us, you know, he I think he scored 20 goals, and the cumulative yardage for those was probably about a hundred because he he tapped them all in from five yards out, like yeah, famously was told by Ancelotti not to go outside the width of the post, basically, and was like, that's your job, you know, it makes complete sense.
SPEAKER_00Adam, what are your thoughts on on Palace? And I'll expand it out a little bit. Uh obviously, we we played Preston as well and won won pretty comfortably in the end. So uh thoughts on on those two games, different, you know, different levels, different competitions, but you know, uh lots of a lot of guests to be pleased about.
Preston Win And Moyes Cup Row
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's always important to start the season with a with a win. And you know, when when the fixtures came out, you look at Palace at home, they've got you know a new said in the preview with a new manager, um, you know, you're looking at that and thinking that you are odds on uh your certain favourites to to win, and you know, we we did so um because we've got you know Bournemouth away next uh and then it switched at home. So we've we've got a relatively um relatively easy start to the uh to the season. So it's nice uh that we started off with three points, and as Ben said, you know, the performance didn't start very well. Um and we were lucky to uh we were lucky to uh not go not go at least one or two down, but um we controlled the game after that. And like Ben said, it was the it was it was good to see that those uh a couple of those new sign-ins look you know look good, um particularly Hackney because um you know there's a lot of competition in that central midfield, so that was good. Um and then on to Preston to Preston. Um you know I mean Preston have been in the championship for god for what seems like absolutely forever. Um so you know, they're not they're not a pad bad team by any means. Um so it was and it was good that we put out a very strong side as well. Um, you know, particularly thinking about Moise's comments around you know, in the cup, um, which I can't remember if that was before or after the Preston game.
SPEAKER_00I think it was it was the before the Preston game, yeah. And so for those of you who have didn't hear it, his press conference before the Preston game, he gave this really touchy response to the guys at Joe Thomas and the Liverpool Echo. He asked him, you know, how important are the cups? And it it's the it was I thought it was really poor by Moyes because it was the first question in the press conference, so he's coming in hot and heavy, like there's no reason. It's a dolly question, like someone is gonna ask you that, like, and it's it's it's it's actually a journalist kind of being nice because he's allowing you to say whatever you want, and then there'll be a follow-up. And Moy Moyes really bit at him and said, journalists who say that are stupid. And the guy, you know, it's like just rude when the guy sat across from you. And if you look, I I what I went back after I saw that clip and watched the whole press conference. He's you can see Moyes is sort of kind of sheepish afterwards. But it was interesting that he because he the what Moyes drew the comparison to Moyes drew was that essentially he was saying, Well, what's more important doing well in the cup or staying in the Premier League? Which is a complete he may as well have said, Well, what's more important, you know, staying in the cup or you know, not loot you know you know, not falling off a cliff or having your house burned down. Is that it's like a completely ludicrous comparison, as if that's the choice you're making. Um, and it was interesting back on the back of we talked about this last week, the CEO's comments about very, very clearly in those interviews that he did about how ambition and the cups is a priority for the ownership. And Moy's clearly feeling that, you know, and uh and almost seeking to defend the fact that he doesn't take them seriously. I thought it was really weird, but sorry, Adam, you were I just wanted to give people that context in case they didn't hear what what he said.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's fine. I'll that's um the yeah, the comments I mean we said we said we said in our chat that yeah, Moyes was totally, totally wrong with what he said. Um the what the manner in which he said it and the point he was making, and and and then for someone of Moyes' experience, where he's just he's created the chat around it now, where obviously you've got our Angus Kinnear, who's made made his comments, you know, reading between the lines, uh, you know, pretty clear about what he thinks about uh you know our our ambition, and then the you know, BBC the day after Moise's comments, then write a article saying um our uh are Moyes and uh Moys and our owners at odds about what uh about our ambitions. It's like we've you've created that chat now, you know, which is stupid. And for someone of Moise's experience, you know, you would think he would know better than to do something like that. And like you said, he was just just bloody rude as well to the to the guy.
SPEAKER_00It was really rude.
SPEAKER_02It was just a put it's just a basic, it's it's not a it's not a literal question, like are the cups important. He's basically saying, like, two clubs like Everton, why are the cups important? That's what he's asking. And like you said, it's a nice, it's just a nice question to start with.
SPEAKER_00He could have said, Dave, tell us what you want to what you want to say. You know, like that could have been that's that question. It's like, and it's a thing that journalists will do when it's like they they know there's a relationship, he's gonna interview him every week. It's like he'll give you a dolly question to begin with, and then Moyes says what everyone says, and then they get into it. I thought it was really poor by by Moyes, say for someone his experience to behave in that way, yeah. You know, and then you you put you it's in it's it embarrasses a journalist as well, and it's like, well, what what did you achieve there? Yeah, you know, like that guy then has got to sort of, you know, he's got to feel pressure to sort of not stand up for himself literally, but like not go easy on you because he doesn't want to appear like he's being bullied, and then when the pressure's on at some point, you've a guy who's writing about Everton every day in the echo, you've pissed him off and embarrassed him. Yeah, I it was really like any anyone a random person off the street wouldn't have thought to do that. And I thought, what you know, did you you know, did someone run over your toe in the morning? Like, what what has caused you to like come into that that press conference like that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, there's clear there's clearly like Moyes is clearly rattled by something behind the scenes because you had like him avoiding he didn't speak to the media at all basically during the the close season. And there's now there's been the the stuff with the your mate Angus with where Moyes kind of came out and said, Well, I was surprised to hear that they you know that they found that disappointing because no one told me that was the goal. Then you have this with the cups, he just seems like it just seems like he's rattled, like uh and that he's not comfortable with the in the in-house situation in some way, and that is started, and then you know, he is a grumpy Scotsman and he's not very he's not very good at hiding when he's grumpy, and I think I think he's grumpy at the minute with the ownership and the noise and the stuff like that, and and I think he's that's what we're seeing get out, unfortunately. Um and it's interesting because it's kind of fine if you keep winning, but if uh if if it starts shifting, like what what how quickly are the owners going to give you cut you some slack when you've behaved like this in in the the start of the season?
SPEAKER_00And there's an Eddie Howe shaped shadow over this whole thing, isn't there, now? Because the the the owners, if you think about where they were when they hired Moyes, it was like, right, we we have you know, what was our chance of going down then at that point? 25-30 percent, like scary eye, like not you know, there were worse sit sides than us, but you know, had to get had to get that move right. Uh you know, he's he he he then delivered that and then some, but then you know it I think the the um the dynamic is different now, you know, and I think I don't think Moyes holds the cards in that way because and he doesn't have the fans on side particularly. I don't think. I mean, I almost we all got our own views, of course, but you know, you think about yeah, if Moyes comes under pressure, we lose three or four games, which will happen at some point in the season. Who's who's on his side? Who's who's yeah, keep more like I just don't know. Like my my mates who I talk to over here, uh well past, he's not the guy. I'm one of the few who's like I don't necessarily defend him a ton, but like I'm open to the idea that he can get us into Europe and be like, you know, I've seen him do it, but you know, that I just don't think he's got those those fans. So it's it's a very it's a bad it's it's obviously a bad plan to like go around pissing more people off and raising like the thing that upset me most about it was like relegation. Seriously, David, seriously, yeah, I know it's a good thing. Relegation, that's that's your framing is relegation. Fuck off. Stop it. We were nowhere near getting relegated last year. We should be nowhere. If you put me in charge, we shouldn't get relegated. Like it's just not even a it shouldn't be a question. So fuck off if if that's your that's the context in which you see Everton. That that's the thing about it. I I'm kind of done with you at if at that point.
SPEAKER_02Well, what are what do what are the players who have been bought for? You know, they they've not been they've not been sold a you know, we're fighting relegation this season, or the players that we prospectively are gonna buy.
SPEAKER_00Right, the the ones you're trying to convince the CEO and other people are out saying, Hey, here's the plan, here's the stadium, dah dah dah. And you've got the manager going, Well, I've got to be careful because we might get relegated. It's like fuck off. Was it Ben maybe like Dysh's like masterclass was always like cratering expectations, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then like beating them, like and it's like it's like that thing. It's like, I don't think people have got tolerance for it now.
SPEAKER_02No, we don't. Well, we shouldn't have tolerance for it. We've got we've got a you know, the our revenues are are are are so much larger than what they were. We're we're we're not gonna get relegated. We should be pushing for Europe. We should have qualified for Europe last year and we didn't. So he's what he's he's rightfully under pressure and he's sort of pissed on his own chips with with uh with his comments there.
Barry’s Confidence And Chance Creation
SPEAKER_02Um, but I mean back onto the sort of Preston game itself, you know, very comfortable win. Um you know, and it and and brilliant to see Barry um, you know, being involved in all four of the goals, you know, Hatrick and then a really nice assist for uh Brennan Johnson's first goal, who took that very well as well. Like you've been like like you said, they're all all of his goals are um all of all of his goals are because he's in the right position, he's in the right place, they're all tapp-ins, I mean two or two tap-ins and one like you know, ricochet. Um but uh he's getting in he's getting in those positions and we're creating those chances against, you know, albeit a on the night quite poor Preston side. Um but uh Barry is like the poster boy of a confidence player, and having four goals in two games is absolutely enormous for him.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and if you look at like, you know, we were looking at the numbers last week, you know, he was last season he was 0.4 goals per 90 minutes. You get that to 0.6 and he plays a lot, fine, right? He's your guy, right?
Beto Debate And Striker Depth
SPEAKER_00You don't need to go and and I'm I'm I I mean I there was something Phil McNulty tweeted today, and maybe we sought this good segue onto transfers, and obviously, and Giant Growish are the main things, but some talk of Fiorentina coming in for Beto, which is like is fine, but I don't see you can't have one striker, so we've then got to go and sign someone, and like that's a whole yeah, that's a whole thing then. So that that struck me as a bit of a weird one there.
SPEAKER_01On Beto. I I really like Beto, I think he works hard. He was god awful when he came on against Palace. Yeah, like literally it was. Do you know who we reminded me of? And this is like damning with the worst praise. Brett Angel. I was gonna say Dennis Stracolesi.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I was gonna say it was either there's but I probably yay to me because you didn't do you ever watch Brett Angel play for Everton?
SPEAKER_01I Brett Angel, but a bit old, bit Yeah, he was angels.
SPEAKER_00He's better looking than Dennis, but essentially just as good at football.
SPEAKER_01Like Beto just there was a there was a there was a point where Beto like went to play a layoff, um, simple, like the sort of thing you will do in training a thousand times, and just screwed it up and gave powers the ball, and they went nearly went and scored. It was the only chance they had in the second half. And then there was a a clear uh a through ball where he was clean through. And if he has the technical ability to take two decent touches, he's clean through and he's got and he stumbles and the ball hits him in the knee, and he's like, and then it ends up the defender catches him and he ends up having to turn back and pass it backwards. It was just like I just don't if if Fiorentino are interested in him, great because like I I honestly think you could pick up someone who was more effective than him for much much cheaper.
SPEAKER_02And there's also there's an element of like you want someone with a bit of a different profile as well, because Barry and Beto have a relatively similar profile. Bet Beto, I'm the same, I really like Beto, and I've got a lot of sympathy for him because he he didn't come through. You mean he used to work at KFC, as did you, Austin, and you didn't become a professional footballer. Um, but he used to um he didn't come through an academy, so he sort of learnt by you know he's he's had to be coached and awful lot more. But but when he plays like that, he reminds me of like uh you know if you like you play like a you play like you give you give your seven-year-old nephew your the PlayStation controller so he can play for a bit on FIFA. He plays like that, some he plays like that sometimes where he just doesn't like doesn't look look like he knows what he's doing, and he and he covers up very simple stuff. And I said like when Beto and Barry were being compared at the start of the last last season, you know, which one would you rather have? And I was I was firmly team Barry because he technically he is far, far better than uh than Beto is.
SPEAKER_00Um so um yeah, it's interesting because I remember at some point I come up saying last season about Barry that I don't see anything in him that indicates he can be a player at this level. And I was I wasn't gonna bring that up, but well no, I I don't mind. I I spat all sorts of shit on here. I mean, what what's the point if you guys don't bring it up? The what are we doing? Well, you're gonna you're gonna decide to be nice now, or why would you why would you adopt that policy? Um at the time it was I was I mean I wasn't it's a subjective thing, but like I I really didn't at the time, I really, really didn't. And now I totally do. And you can see it in pre-season as well, it's just different, you know, the just the way he drives with the ball, he's running, is it's the way he's thinking, like he had this brilliant assist. I forget which pre season it was, to roll where he he had you know, he he did this back heel assist. It's like just the awareness, he's just operating a different level, and of course, he's a young. Guy and talked about a lot, his young guy comes to the Premier League, he's got a young kid, he's got a you know, all of that. Like, I I totally get it. So I'm not I I won't withdraw my assessment at the time because it was an assessment at the time, but I probably was a bit unsympathetic to someone who was like needed needed a bit more a bit more time. And it's great we're seeing him now, and that that's amazing. And he's got a little bit of rapport with the fans going as well, which is good because that was always a question as well. Like, is he has he invited too many Arsenal supporting mates to fight us? You know, it turns out you can get away with that. Uh if you score some goals. Just need to score some goals. Should we talk about other transfers?
Ndiaye Sale And Grealish Loan Idea
SPEAKER_00Um I'm gonna give you guys a proposition, right? Because all this stuff knocking around about Anjay and uh Man City and Grealish, and Grealish isn't in their squad tonight, and let's Adam, I'll start with you. You here tomorrow, we've done a deal where Anjay goes to Man City for 50 million and we get Grealish on loan for another year. Happy or sad?
SPEAKER_02Happy. Um yeah, I'd be happy with that because getting Grealish on loan, as we said last week, he is like he's better than he's better than anyone, uh any of the other places uh the other players that we would have uh minus Sinjai. Um so and he he's won it all, he's got the experience, he's got the ability. Um and he'd be out of contract as well, um, the follow-up season. Yeah, so there's that yeah, it's essentially a transfer, yeah.
SPEAKER_00If you can negotiate wages with it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so it'd be it would be the it would be the amount of money that you would get plus him, I think, for for as a loan. I think that'll be the question because you've got to you've also got to consider Sheffield United will probably have a quite significant sell-on clause. Um, because we signed him for a base of 15 million. Um yeah, which is nuts if you think about it. Yeah, but that's why I picked 50 because so go.
SPEAKER_01We also did we didn't sign him from Sheffield United, we signed him. He came from yeah, he came from Sheffield United to meant to learn to pass it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, because it it's why I said 50, because there's word Everton volume at 80, which is posturing, but you know, you I can see 70 or something or 65. So it's like, what do you discount against that to get another year of Jack Greelish? Ben, what do you think?
SPEAKER_01No, I agree with Adam. I'd I'd be happy with that. I think, and I think that's like right in the ballpark of where it would need to be if you came and said, Oh, it's Njai plus 30, and it's sorry, if it's it's like we've sold Njai for 30, and we've got Jack Greelish thinking, that's a little bit like like, but I think if you're selling him for 40, 50 million, I think that's that's spot on. I think because the other thing as well is that I love Enjay, he uh has been great for us. He got an assist against Pavis, but it's not like he's been transformational in the last sort of six, nine months. He's turned down lots of contracts, he obviously doesn't really want to be here. So at some point you just have to like accept that that is the reality of the situation and take the money that is on offer rather than having this continual like willy, won't he? Is he gonna be in the mood? Is he gonna be feeling it? Is he gonna be, you know, does he want is it does he want out? Is he gonna, you know, and he's you've never got the sense that he's like it's not like he's downed tools and like stropped or taking his ball home, but was there was a definitely a drop-off in his play the second half of last season.
SPEAKER_03Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01And you just you just think like it if someone's gonna give us 50 million pounds plus Jack Grealish to make that go away, then like fine. I think the interesting thing it creates is is it it makes you slightly unbalanced because you would then end up with the reason why the Grealish did um the Grealish and Jai thing kind of worked is because Enjay could switch over to the right and play well from there, and that's how we started against Palace. He played George on the left and Jai on the right, and that worked. I think if you sign Grealish, Grealish can't play on the right, and I don't know if Tyreek George can play on the right either. So you're then in a situation where you're kind of your two best wingers, as it was, are on the same side and aren't really on can't really switch. So I'd be interested. It's an interesting tactical thing to then solve, basically, is what do you do for the the right wing? Do you do you shift out Tyreek George there and and can he play there? Or do you go, okay, well, Tyree George is now your impact sub and you're playing one of Dibbling and Brennan Johnson on the right as you as you're starting, or do you buy a right winger, like uh and you buy another one, and that's the other thing to do. But no, I I'm I'm I'm totally relaxed about players who don't want to be here being sold for big money. That's like totally fine with me.
SPEAKER_00I it's interesting, you know, one of the things that uh you can uh one of the things you can do uh with Chat GPT now is like very quickly pull up uh stats. And one of the things I instinctively think, and I agree with you guys, what it's worth. It's been interesting to watch some debates, people like, oh, you know, uh there's no question Grewish is a more impactful player than Anjay. He might not look as good or play in the same way, but his assists per 90 minutes when he while he played for us were 0.33. So that is and and that's three times Anjay's average assist per 90 minutes. Three times. So that over the course of a season, we only we only, you know, Greeleach was leading the assist chart in the Premier League. You know, we talked last year about Fernandez best season ever, best player ever. It's absolute bullshit. I mean, Bruno Fernandez is a moderately good footballer and a complete prick. And if he didn't play for Man United, like no one would give a shit about him. Greelich was ahead of him comfortably in the assist charts. He was in January when he got injured, he was still ahead of him in March. And he hadn't played for eight weeks. So I just don't think there's a question about uh that you know, if you were to, you know, do you have if you're more successful with with Grealish or in Dye in your team, you're more successful with Jack Greelish in your team. I just don't think there's a question there. But you're right, there's um there's a there's a money thing and there's a balance thing. And I I don't trust Everton to what you what it makes sense what you say, but like we'd actually want to then think about a right winger, but I think Moyes will think he has two of those already. He's got Johnson, he's got Dibbling, and that you know, so it's like fine.
Right Back Hunt And Deadline Doubts
SPEAKER_01Yeah. As long as we then I think the the the third part of that equation is then does that allow you to finally sign a fucking right back?
SPEAKER_00Well, then so it's gonna well, I was gonna ask you guys that next. Like, I I mean I'm hearing nothing now. We sort of all know that they've got a number one choice and they're trying to see if they can get what's that guy's name, Adam? I forget. I I'm pretty sure you made him up. Sorry, do way. Maybe he exists, maybe he doesn't. Uh and then we've got the the Celtic dude's back up. But do we think we're gonna Everton this, or do you think we're actually gonna do it this time? Well, actually sign a right back. Actually sound a right back. Sound a right back, it's not a good right back. No, I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Well, we're not we're not gonna sign the Celtic guy because he's he's injured until October. That's why that transfer is solved right now.
SPEAKER_00This is how this is how up to date I am with the transfer ins and outs.
SPEAKER_01That's why that that's why that disappeared. Because I think we were basically on the verge of signing him and then he got injured. So sorry, I'd have to cut you off.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, Alistair Johnson is his name. He sounds like a he sounds like a 90s uh 80s Labour politician rather than a right back consulting. Um I have no confidence that we will end up signing um that we'll end up signing a right back. Um I just I just can't see it happening because I I just think I think Moyes likes to have a lot of control, and that's been beneficial because our previous regime where the manager had basically no control, there was a lot of a mismatch between the sporting directors and the managers uh team. So there's that, but I think Moyes is very I think with with fullbacks in particular, and we saw that with Jolie and Lescott, you know, Leighton Baines basically just didn't play for the first six months of when he well when he was purchased from Wigan in 2006. So uh Lescott played because he liked Lescott, and we had Yobo and um uh Yobo and Stubbs. Was it Yobo and Stubbs? I think it was Yobo and Stubbs, yeah. Um you know, so and now you're seeing Jacob Bryan. Jacob plays 37 times uh in the Premier League last season, uh, rather than Nathan Patterson because he he likes a structure, he he he's a very very structurally um uh driven manager in that sort of sense. So that's why and it's uh that's also why he likes Mikhailenko because he's defensively sound and solid. Um so no, I don't think we will because I just I just think he's probably got a list of players that he would would want to start for us to get. And I think Duay is the is the candidate that we'll probably want because he fits the profile attacking-wise, he's good, but he's he's like, you know, he's he's he's like six foot one, defensively really good, very athletic. He he he he's by far the best uh candidate for the for the for the role that we need. Um but uh you know Strasbourg are uh holding out for a large fee, and obviously they're you know they're they're part of the uh you know the Chelsea um sporting group as well, so they're you know they're gonna be uh they they're gonna be as as Chelsea have shown, they're gonna be uh um difficult to negotiate with to get a decent fee for him. So yeah, I I've got no confidence. I think Merlin Row is gonna be alright back um at the very least until January.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I I reckon we're gonna proper evidence this. Um like I think there's a couple more twists and terms to come. I think we'll definitely have the the deadline day, we're doing a deal for this person, oh actually their car's broken down, or they left their passport at home, or actually we've accidentally, you know, we were trying to sign his brother. Um, you know, we'll we'll have whatever Everton-esque cock up we're going to we're going to have. Um and then end up with with nobody and and we'll get the classic David Royce will go with what we've got. We tried hard, but it's difficult, etc. etc. Um, I am open to being surprised, but I think we're at the point now where it's just everything's gone quiet. And yeah, very quiet. Very quiet. And I just think like the only, and you know, maybe that's maybe everything was quiet before we found Christian Norgard. So maybe maybe there's something will emerge in the next couple of days, but everything's gone very, very quiet. So it's it it is a concerning state of affairs. And the problem, as we talked about last week, is that and this comes back to what we talked about at the beginning of this pod as well, is like Moyes doesn't buy himself any favour with the fans when you approach transfers and approach the game like the way that he does, because as I said, he wants defensive fullbacks who are solid and uh you know gonna do a job, and that's why he likes so in Moyes' mind, I don't I don't think he sees the right back thing as as big a deal as the rest of the fan base does, because I think in his mind he goes, Well, I've got Jacob Bryan, I've got Jacob Bryan who can play there, what what are you going on about? And I've got my other role who can play there, what are you going on about? Like, I I genuinely don't think he views it as like, oh my god, I have a massive hole in my team. I think he views it as well, I've got these two options that do what I need them to do, like, and we'll we'll make do and mend everywhere else. So I just think it's you know, I just think it's it's primed for a you know on Wednesday for us to get the we tried hard, nothing available, difficult window, blah blah blah, we'll go with what there are no right backs.
Why Modern Full Backs Matter
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because it's and it's so it's it's funny because you look back to like the best Moyes Everton teams, and it's almost like because Ben, I completely agree with your analysis, it's like but it's almost like he doesn't understand why he it was successful, because the that the teams that he had that were like very consistently, you know, we were sixth, seventh, with a budget that shouldn't have had us there, was Baines and Coleman. And the and you know, the Baines Pinot thing particularly, but you know, as attacking options, those players were like really important. And with everything that Pep's done to the Premier League over the last 10 years, fullbacks are arguably even more important because either, you know, Adam, you talked last week about you know they they they if you don't have an attacking threat, it essentially allows the opposition to not worry about one side of the pitch, which means that you can never overload them because they can just move players away from there. But also, you know, a lot of teams now play with fullbacks that actually essentially play as midfielders when we've got you've got the ball, right? If you if you're trying to pack through the middle, so having a player, even one player, and in Moyes' mind, maybe two, that doesn't perform any function in the attacking unit is you you can't play like that in the Premier League now because teams are so well coached that if you can't overload, you're not gonna create many chances. And if you're doing that, you know, you've always got your two centre halves who essentially more or less don't play any role in attacking in a real way, and then you're going, okay, well, one of my fullbacks isn't either. Okay, that's three players who are just no threat at all, and that's easy. Then it's like again, defending against eight players.
SPEAKER_01I think the the thing, the way it could work, and this is difficult to do on an audio podcast, but I'm gonna try my best here. The way it could work, if if you think about how a four, two, three, one, which is what we broadly play, lines up, right? You could have a world where if Jake O'Brien is your right fullback, he essentially, when you've got the ball and you're attacking, he slides across and essentially it's a three at the back, right? And that gives your left fullback enormous amounts of space to push forward. And then that where you play a box five at the back, so you you essentially play O'Brien as a sort of inverted fullback who steps like into becomes a back three, and you would abandon him as an attacking force, and then your central midfielder on that side is given license to push on and support the winger because you know you've got the solidity of having a covering central midfielder and then three centre backs, and then your width on the left comes from having a really attacking fullback. The problem is we don't have a really good attacking fullback on the left either, so you can't even tactically cover for the fact that okay, if I've got to play Jacob Bryan, here's how the system can still work. Because, like, you know, Man City, you know, Pep did this for years, like playing Nathan Ake at left back and playing, you know, Yosep Guardiol, who is a centre back at left back. You know, so you can do it if you're tactically set up to do it. I don't think Moyes is. And we also don't have the we don't have the the counterbalance on the left-hand side to go, well, we've got this great attacking left back, so actually it doesn't matter that we haven't got necessarily the right back because you can tactically manipulate the team to make that not matter.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's interesting because you're right, like he he essentially plays Jake O'Brien like a conservative, traditional, like he's trying to get forward and occasionally cross the ball and just can't do it. And the thing you would actually do if you were had the tactical flexibility to do what you're talking about is you'd actually keep Dwight McNeil and turn him into a left back, wouldn't you? Yeah, and you'd say, Okay, you only need to be able to defend somewhat competently, but when we've got the ball, actually wander into the middle. And and actually, I want you to sit as a second number 10 when we've got the ball or or an eight, yeah, and really fuck with people because that's hard to defend then, because you've got you know, your your opposition probably has some glamorous right winger who isn't gonna have the disciplines, and you've got an extra man, but Moyes just doesn't and it's so strange because it's a when he was successful, what he always wanted is actually his even the sort of wingers in inverted commas. And I think I mean we did for a time under Moyes play 4-4-2 at the start, but when it went sort of everyone started playing one striker and you had these wide players, he really did want them to be very flexible and and mobile and move around a lot, but then you've got to have the width come from the fullbacks, yeah. Yeah, so it's it's strange that he doesn't, you know, he doesn't seem to acknowledge uh acknowledge uh how that works. It's uh it's part of the I sort of have this, I've been thinking about this a bunch recently about things people say about like, oh well, you know, they're professionals, they're seeing them every day, and and that's true, but we as fans, we watch a lot of football, you know, a lot, and it's not that we not, I'm sure none of us would be great football managers or would have anything like Moise's kind of record if we were, but we we're not total idiots either. Like we've watched hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of football matches, and he's sometimes obvious, and he's very quick, and also I think part of it is he is his obstinence. I think when he's now like uh I don't need it's a it he's what he's like a kid, you know, it's like you you push him to do it and he just won't do it because he doesn't want to admit that he was wrong a year ago. Sorry, Ben, go ahead.
SPEAKER_01No, I was gonna say that I totally yeah, I get the they see them in trading every day, etc. etc. But that doesn't mean that their decision making is still infallible. Like Sean Dyes watched Jake O'Brien in training every day and didn't pick him, and then David Moyes arrived and went, This guy's pretty good, like like we should get him in the team, and lo and behold, he is a very good footballer and he should have been in the team. So, like the the sort of we see them every day doesn't make them like immune to making a mistake in their observations um compared to what we as fans are watching, because uh no one can watch us and uh not recognize the problem that we have in terms of lacking attacking fullbacks, and it's it's sort of strange as well that uh you know we we all we all agree that uh Moyes' uh uh rigidity is is is sort of holding us back in terms of um acquiring a suitable right back.
SPEAKER_02But in his first battle at Everton, you know, we had two of the best attacking fullbacks in the uh in the league in Coleman and Baines. You know, Baines was the highest, I think he still is the highest assisting um defender in the Premier League. Um and you know, we all marvelled at the PR and Baines uh left side combo during during their time. Um so it's not like he it's not like he doesn't like those sort of players, but I think that the thing is he he trusted Coleman defensively and he trusted Baines defensively, and they were also just really good at going forward. I just were a bit unicorn y weren't they, the two of them? Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_00Almost equally effective at both ends.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, exactly. And I think the the problem is we're trying to find a player that you know that that he he likes. And fullbacks have they're hard, they're hard to come by, you know. I just I just asked Gemini just to bring up, and it could only I think only four, it said only like four Premier League sides have actually bought a an actual a right back uh this summer, and uh only one of which actually costs any money. Um so fullbacks are hard, they're hard to find, and good fullbacks are hard to find. So there is that's there is a little bit of sympathy involved in that. Um with
Jake O’Brien Minutes And Squad Planning
SPEAKER_02that. But going back on to maybe a bit of a nice segue into uh into Jake O'Brien, because obviously there's been talk about him wanting more more minutes, which is totally understandable. Yeah. Because Tarkovsky is you know, statistically, he's one he's he's actually uh one of the most effective defenders in Europe um consistently over the past like five, six seasons. Um and Branthawaite is he'll be playing for England um you know this this year, um, if he has a good season. So you've got a really good partnership there. So O'Brien's sort of a victim of what was at the time, I think, anticipated uh an anticipated departure for Branthawaite, because I think we bought it as like a long-term successor for him. And now Branthawaite stayed, and Brett Jake O'Brien is now, you know, he doesn't want to play right back, totally understandable. So Eliza, you said you said as you said, Ben in our in our uh in our group, you sell O'Brien, you probably then need to go and buy somebody. Um and People know people know you've got m people know you've got the money. There's only a few days left of the window. That's hard to do. And if if Tarkov, I mean Branthwaite obviously got injured last season, and if we were to sign, if we were to sign a right back and roll as you know a better right back than it's how how reassuring would it be that Jacob can just come come in slot in and then be nearly as good as Branthwaite or Tarkovsky?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I think the selling O'Brien wouldn't make any sense because the reason you would sell someone like him is if he'd had such a tremendous it's like the injecting, right? They're just such a the return on investment is so tremendous that you can't turn it down, or he's so desperate to leave that you're worried about him, you know, stealing staplers and being a bad influence, right? And like that's not the sense that you get from Jake O'Brien, right? He seems to, you know, act like a professional, even though he's been played out of position, even though he's not happier, like um what he what he's doing. So yeah, I think um I would be surprised if we sold him just because I think he would need to spend the same amount of money to replace him anyway.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, totally. Um so all right, we've solved all the transfer problems. We're not gonna sign him right back, we're probably gonna sign Jack Grewish, who was so forgive me for not crediting who pointed this out, was sharing on his Instagram today clips of him scoring goals for us. So you know it's like he is so coming back, he's so coming back. Uh which I'm excited about it, I think
Bournemouth Preview And How To Set Up
SPEAKER_00that's great. Uh all right, let's talk about uh let's talk about Bournemouth a little bit. I I don't have a good read on where Bournemouth are at. Like T-wise. I there's a Bournemouth fan channel called Back of the Net that I I stumbled upon a couple years ago, which I I've stayed watching and I which I really like those guys, but like I don't have a good sense of whether Bournemouth are gonna be good this year. I did have a good sense of that with Crystal Palace, which is why I correctly predicted that we would beat them 2-0, because I just figured any team into which Dwight McNeil is walking is not very good. And that that was the level of science that that that analysis had, and it proved to be right. But I don't have a good sense. So, Adam, what's your view on like this the game and Bournemouth and how we should be approaching it?
SPEAKER_02To be fair, even when they had it Raioli, they went, you know, they would go a few like three or four games losing, and then they would win the next five. They were that sort of team. Um I know very little about, I don't know, I don't know an awful lot about Marco Rosa, who's their who's their manager, um, but uh from you know, he didn't do he didn't do very well. He's not doesn't do very he didn't do very well in Germany, and Philippe Auclair, who's you know, is um much more knowledgeable about um is incredibly knowledgeable about continental football, he doesn't rate him at all. He doesn't he doesn't predict Bournemouth to do very well, I believe. I can't remember if he's actually think he's actually relegated them. Um he's gone that far, I think. Um so and Jonathan Wilson was on the same podcast and he he was of the similar opinion. So you've got Philip O'Clair and Jonathan Wilson, two of the you know most knowledgeable men in football, uh basically say that he's not he's he's not all that. So if you were to go off that, then you would say that we are uh you know that Bournemouth in general won't do very well this season. But you know, they had a disappointing result. Uh, you know, they were good very good away at City, and obviously disappointingly lost that in the final like 10 minutes or so. Um so I think we're gonna I think we've because we've got Ipswich the following week, I think we're gonna probably set up not to lose. I don't think we're gonna go there as like an attacking. I think we're gonna look go to make it difficult and then hit them on the break, which we do have the players to do with like Njay and Barry and George. Um so I'm not very I'm not like particularly confident about it. I think that Bournemouth will be wanting to get into uh you know into a winning ways after their disappointing result. So um I'll be a pess I'll be a pessimist and I'll I'll I'll think we're going to um I think we're going to lose 2-1.
SPEAKER_00Who did Bournemouth play in their first game of completely?
SPEAKER_02They lost away at City, but they were winning for the first it was that last last minute goal by City, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um and they I mean I love I mean I absolutely love Bournemouth. I think like they are fantastically run, and they they they're almost a bit like a blueprint of what we might end up doing, which is because uh they sacked they sacked Gary O'Neill when they brought in Araola, and I was one of the people that said, What the fuck are you doing? Like this guy just checked you up. Um, you know, what are you doing? You're bringing in this like no absolute nobody from Spain, and look, you know, look what he ended up doing with them. So you know, though they know what they're doing, um, with with appointee managers, and that you know, um uh and to to sort of stay in the Premier League after with with their budget and their ground, the size of their ground and the size of the actual place they play is is absolutely incredible. Uh you forget with Bournemouth, I mean their stadium holds 11,000 people.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_02It's probably 8,000 smaller than Knotts counties who play, you know, just got promoted to League One. Um, you know, it's it's about the same size as Mansfield's ground. It's a bit it's I think Mansfield's a slightly smaller, but yeah, it's ludicrous, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Premier League team. And they've got a plan to expand it to 25. I mean, yeah, no, I totally agree.
Lessons From Well Run Clubs
SPEAKER_00It's interesting, you know, honestly, to put clubs being well run. I can't remember. I was listening to this, someone uh on some podcast, a football podcast I was listening to this week. We're talking about Brentford, obviously had a similar kind of reputation, very, very well run. Appointed Keith Andrews, who was their set piece coach, never heard before, and suddenly he's like a you know world beater. I've appointed Damien Duff as one of his assistants. And the point, I don't know how this was sort of sourced, but with great confidence, this books were talking about how Duff has been appointed as Andrews's successor. Yeah, basically that's the plan. It's like it was a football weekly, yeah. Right, yeah, yeah. And that's like we Everton compared to that, Everton can't tie their fucking shoelaces compared to like the forethought to go, of course, this guy who's doing well for Brentford is gonna get grabbed by a bigger team, therefore, we are now gonna bring in the guy who's gonna replace him. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, God, Everton could never unbelievable.
SPEAKER_02Well, Damien Duff is an interesting case because he he was managing in he was managing in Ireland and doing uh you know doing amazingly with it with uh I think I can't remember which Irish team it was, but he was doing brilliantly. Um and he was he kept getting offers from like the football league and turning them down, turning them down, and now he's become assistant because it's almost like he's been waiting for this yeah this sort of opportunity. Yeah, I think it was Mac, I think it was Max Rushton to give him his credit, was the guy who made that point, and you can definitely see um, you know, the three B's, they just seem so they just know exactly what they're doing when the when the when their managers and their players get poached, they just they are just one step ahead every single time. And you just wonder that sort of ide that that can't be all that difficult to that can't be all that difficult to do, you know.
SPEAKER_00No, it just requires like all of you know you a lot of football clubs are you need good management, and I think with I don't know, like I think every indication is that Angus Kinnae is doing a really good job, you know, the commercial stuff's very good, the stadium stuff is obviously great, and obviously a lot of that preceded him, but everything that was done last year, he talks a good game. You know, you because you you need, but a lot of clubs are like owned and therefore run by idiots. So Mashiri, who I you know, history will judge Evertonions will judge Mashiri better in 10 years than we do right now because of the stadium and all that sort of stuff. And and you know, we talked about this before. If you think Everton have hurt us, he lost 900 million pounds as Everton owner. The guy was wedding, man. He was not when he started his net worth of reported at 1.2 billion. Now, maybe like he would, I'm sure he would have gone up, so he's not left with just 300 million, but he lost he lost hundreds of millions of pounds to Everton. So no Everton have not fucked us up anywhere near as much as they screwed that guy. But you know, he's an idiot in a in a footballing sense. I mean, didn't know what the hell he was doing. Uh, what's the guy at uh Offshore Gym uh at Man United? Has absolutely no idea what he's doing, complete idiot, you know, uh great great at running chemical companies, shit at everything else. So, you know, like the the they don't know what that they're there's so much ego in it, and these owners, we do you could obviously find out, you know, and the the bright guy I have some awareness of because he's kind of an interesting character, but that these clubs are just run by people who I think are good, understand how to lead generally, and then bring in really good people to to actually do it, you know, and and uh it's not they're not tradition in many ways. Um when I say they're not traditional football people, I don't mean like they don't understand football. I'm sure they do very well. Like the Brighton guy, whose name escapes me, is like a data guy, right? But and obviously a big Brighton fan, but that they understand that like it's that you it's you've got to apply like the principles of like management, strategy, long-term planning that successful businesses do. You can absolutely apply to football, it's not some crazy random thing that you know is is governed by its own its own laws, and where you do that, yeah, you can build these sustainable clubs. So maybe under this ownership and this leadership, Everton will get there, you know, maybe because it'd be brilliant if we did, because with that model, with our scale, you could really do
Stadium Revenue PSR And Europe Push
SPEAKER_00something.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah, absolutely. Look at I was having this conversation with um with my my friend my friend uh Daniel the uh yesterday. We were looking at we were talking about Aston Villa and and Spurs and how uh Aston Villa have sort of broken that glass ceiling with um of qualifying for the Champions League a couple of times, uh I think twice out of the last three seasons and all the money that sort of brings, but then they've gone and lost this summer six of their starting 11 from the from their Europa League win, you know, just a few months ago. I raised an absolute load of money, but they they haven't got the clout to sort of hold on to those players. Spurs then have then have two uh successive 17th place finishes stay up on the last day of the season, but then they can go and spend uh what is now over 300 million pounds in a single transfer window, uh completely overhauling their squad. And why can they do that? Because they have the revenue from their stadium, and that's Everton's that's the thing that Everton will benefit from is that it won't be at Spurs' level for a good number of years for a variety of reasons, but it will be uh it will be uh so much larger than what we we could pull in with with Gooderson and that that will be a that is a huge huge advantage that we have over clubs like Bournemouth and Brighton and Brentford and even like Villa who are footballing wise ahead of us, but commercially probably not in as good uh don't have the foundations that we necessarily have.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. It's all kind of unexplored potential with Everton. I mean, the revenue went up. I was just looking up the numbers, you know, something like 20% or 25% over the last year, and the stadium stuff hasn't really kicked in, and we haven't had European football for for a long time. So the the the opportunity is just absolutely, you know, absolutely enormous if if you could actually organise yourself to to take advantage of it. Whereas, you know, I mean, I guess, you know, Brentford London Club maybe, but there's a lot of competition there. Brighton have, you know, I guess are sort of N of one in terms of being that prop proper South Coast team in the Premier League now. But Bournemouth are limited by the stadium and the scale of their and Brighton again, you know, the scale of their scale of their kind of local fan base. Uh Everton don't have any of those restrictions, you know, and and and still have a different kind of brand, you know. Yeah, I mean, I was looking at just pulled these numbers up here. I mean, uh, Everton's revenue, this is 2425, so this is the last year. Our revenue is 197 million pounds. Brighton's slightly higher at 221. We're 12th in the league on revenue that year. Uh Liverpool's who share a city with us, uh, 700 million. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's the and when you have a squad cost ratio based financial situation, that's that's all that matters.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. That's that's that's the that's the thing that we're really benefiting from because obviously with the you know, it's not it's the rules now are uh no the PSR rules now, as you say, are uh it it's revenue it it's wages and transfers and that sort of stuff, operation costs that are linked to much more stringently to your income. Um now. So that's where we will see that benefit in the coming years is because our our income will be going up 10, 15, 20% year on year naturally. And then if when you when you chuck in European football, which is why you know it was so disappointing that owners were so disappointed not to get that last season, um that becomes that much more important as well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it'll make it make all of it. I mean, you start looking at these teams that are above us, and you go, okay, so look let's not think about like Liverpool, Man City, Arsenal, okay, they're different level. Spurs 565 million, so more than double, nearly three times stadium, and then Chelsea, Aston Villa, who were not a very comparable club to to us 359 million. Obviously, the Champions League is a huge contributor to that. You know, if we if we you know, I think for a Europa League run, the average revenue you'd expect from that is about 35 million. So if you think about 35 million against 197 million, that is a dramatic increase in revenue. Absolutely, you know, yes, and Moy should it's probably what one reason they're frustrated. Moy should absolutely absolutely get it. Um, all right, we need to wrap up, but Ben, we haven't
Score Predictions And Final Thoughts
SPEAKER_00had your prediction for Bournemouth. So uh what do you think about our infamous bogey team?
SPEAKER_01I I'm gonna go for a one-one draw because I think I think we've had a good start to the season. I think we'll be confident, but I also can't look beyond last season as a side, the obvious boginess of of uh of Bournemouth.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, I'd I'd go for a one-one draw and I would happily take that. Yeah, I think you I agree with both your prediction and the fact I would take it. Because if you draw there and then we're getting ahead of ourselves, but B tip switch a week after, then you look back and you go, yeah, all right, solid, solid start for sure. Um all right, well, we'll see. Uh maybe by the time you listen to this, it's imminent. So come on, you blues. Uh all right, anything else for anything else before we wrap wrap this one up? No, not for me. Great. Awesome. Good to see you, Adam. Good to see you, Ben. Uh we'll uh be back next week. Uh follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. Tell our Everton supporting friends, send them an episode. Really helps us out, helps people discover the show. Uh, and we'll see you on the other side of the fucking Toffees.