Blues Brothers Everton Podcast
Blues Brothers Everton Podcast
Everton at the halfway point
19 games in and Everton are sitting nicely in the top half of the table. Ben, Adam and Andy break down the season so far and look ahead to what January's transfer window might bring.
Hello and welcome to episode 89 of the Blues Brothers Everton podcast. Um long time no see, we actually last podcasted in October of 2025, and it's now uh January 2nd, 2026. So, first of all, happy new year. Um, second of all, sorry for the for the for the long gap. I I would claim there was some reason for it, but it there isn't. We just weren't organized enough to do it. Um we actually lasted a podcast before the Spurs game, so to give you a sense of how many games we've played since then. Um I've got uh Adam and Andrew with me, Ben, today. Uh Austin can't join us. He's on he's on parenting duty, so uh so he's looking after Clementine. Adam, how are you?
SPEAKER_04:I'm good, thank you. Yeah, I've had a nice uh Christmas break and uh and new year.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so happy to be back uh doing these podcasts.
SPEAKER_00:And Andy, how are you doing? Hi Ben, I'm good, thank you. Yeah, likewise had a good Christmas, worked uh across some of it as normal in the transport industry, but um the mighty blues have um managed to put all of us in a better mood than we otherwise might have been in. And I'm looking forward to um having a chat about it.
SPEAKER_01:Great. Yes, um, I think general positivity reigns as we enter 2026, which is makes a difference from previous years. So um, what we're gonna do, we're not gonna do uh attempt to do game by game because there's too many of them since we last podcast. Um, but what I will do is I will just summarize all the games that have happened since then, and we can do like a so far this season, and then we're gonna talk about what our expectations are for the second half of the season, and then uh we can talk a bit about the January transfer window. So, as a reminder, since um we last spoke, we lost 3-0 to Spurs at home, we drew 1-1 to Sunderland away, we beat Fulham 2-0 at home, we beat Man United 1-0 away. I can't believe we didn't podcast after addressing game Michael Keene, by the way. Um uh we lost four, we lost 4-1 to Newcastle at home, we beat Bournemouth 1-0 away, we beat Forest 3-0 at home, we lost Chelsea 2-0 away, we lost to Arsenal 1-0 at home, we drew with Burnley 0-0, and then we beat Forest 2-0, which is our most recent game. We've actually played Forest twice since we uh since we last December, which is gonna be impressive slash kind of shameful, but there we go. Although, to be fair, we did play them both in December. Like we played them on the 6th of December and then on the 30th of December, which is one of those weird quirks where you get um in the fixture of time of the season. Okay, so that is like where we where we are and what we're doing. And and as a reminder, we are currently I'm gonna um we're gonna I'm gonna commit to this. I think we're eighth in the Premier League table. We are um we potentially could have moved around a little bit with the games the other day, but we didn't. So we are eighth in the Premier League table on 28 points, one point behind Sunderland, two points behind Man United in sixth, and two points behind Chelsea in fifth. We are actually only five points behind Liverpool, who are in the Champions League places. And not that we have to care about this anymore, we are a whole 14 points ahead of the relegation zone. Um, so that is our season where we are. Andy, I'll throw it to you first. Out of all of that, generally tell us how you're feeling about everything, anything you want to highlight, any particular players' performances you want to pick out.
SPEAKER_00:Generally, I'm feeling extremely positive. Um, the round the list of games that you've just read off there, there've been one or two disappointments. Spurs at home, the performance wasn't too bad, but the result obviously was the Newcastle 4-1 at home was just one of those strange results that just sort of happens when everything they hit kind of goes in. Um, but generally, the the performances and more importantly, the results have been really good. I mean, we've managed to um exercise our hoo do at Manchester United going away there and getting the results in obviously extremely difficult circumstances, going down to 10 men really early. Um, we managed to win away at Bournemouth as well this season and and get that particular monkey off our backs as well. And goodness knows we've had some poor results there over the years. I mean, remember the two 4-0 in a week under Lampard, one in the league and one in the League Cup, I think it was. Um so the performances generally have been trending in the right direction, and it's a testament to Moyes' uh management skills and his ability to organise a squad and a team that is still limited in certain areas. It's a testament to his managerial skills that um he's been able to do that in terms of players. I mean, you look at the players that we've we've got out at the at this particular time, but I really love Jewsbury Hall. He's been an absolutely fantastic signing. I mean, I was the last game I was at at Goodison was the um at Goodison, sorry, Hill Dickinson slip of the tongue there. It's been we we were all all at Goodison a long time, um was the 2-nil game um where we beat Fulham and it was he was just superb, he really was. He's just taken to the club uh like a duck to water. You can obviously have a debate as to whether he'd be better suited being maybe slightly further back in the eighth position rather than playing as a 10, but he he's he's he's been doing really, really well. Um and earlier on in the season as well, there was some speculation as to whether James Garner was a bit of a jack of all trades master or none, not necessarily amongst us, but that was what I was hearing sort of on other Everton podcasts. But his performance in the Nottingham Forest game for me put or the where we won away at the city ground, that particular Nottingham Forest game, put any of those doubts to bed because again, he was superb in that game. Every club or every squad of players needs a player who can do a sort of six or seven out of ten job in several positions, and he can do that, but he also stepped up to the plate more recently when we've had players out, and Giar is obviously at Afcon and Gay, um Idrissa Gay's at Afcon, Jewsby Hall's injured, Merlin Rolls just coming back from an injury. So you need your players who are fit to step up to the plate, and he's done that in spades, and he's been absolutely superb for us. So, overall, if you'd have offered any of us eighth in the league at the turn of the year, at the start of the season, again, we'd have all snapped your hand off. So the club is trending in the right direction, and it's great to see.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think that's right. Just on the point about injuries, I shared this in our WhatsApp group before the Forest game and when we saw the team sheet come out. But our current sort of the missing 11 from that, I included Grealish because he wasn't fit to start, but he did come on. We've we are missing Coleman, Keene, Branthwaite, Garner, uh Jewsbury Hall, and Jai Alcaraz Grealish. So we are a goalkeeper, a left back, and a striker short of having a full, fairly decent Premier League 11 missing through injury. And I mean, if you look at that midfield, Garner, KDH, and Jai Alcaraz Grealish, that is like you know, not quite our best midfield, because I agree with you. I think Jimmy Garner obviously has been one of our stars of this season. But apart from him, that's our that's that's four of our five starting midfielders. Four of our five best midfielders are currently not available to us. Greenish is now coming back, which is great, but I think you're right, Abney, it is a testament to like the job that Moise has done that we're you know that we're continuing to pick up points, pick up results, despite the the injuries and the and the the lack of resources. I mean our bench our bench the other day had two players I've genuinely never I had to Google.
SPEAKER_00:The bench was funny. I mean, the the the during the second half the camera panned along it at one time, uh, and you had obviously Beto and Grealish there. And then as far as I could see, several school children on a work experience field trip. I mean, they was they looked so young and like you, I'd never heard of three or four of them. Yeah, and that's you know, and that and that and that's no no fault on ours as supporters, because obviously they were just there to make up the numbers and were only going to put on if something you know went seriously sideways, like another injury or a red card.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. Um, but yeah, it did it didn't inspire me with confidence before that game, but we won, so that was great. Adam, uh talk to us about how you're feeling uh about the season, anything else you want to call out.
SPEAKER_04:I take it in the context of the you know the past few seasons uh where we've flooded with relegation. Um I think at this point in the season, last season, um, you know, this season we've got 19, we've got uh 28, 28 points from 19. And I think uh it was a rat it was this time uh last year where Dyesh uh said, you know, I've taken these as far as I can. Um and we had um I think we had 11 fewer points. I think we had 80, I think we had uh 17 points, you know. So um and I think if you were to double that total back off the top of my head, I think that still would have kept you up, but that was only because of the how poor the that the the three sides that went down were last year. Um so you've got to sort of take it in that uh context for now, because you're looking at 56 points um come the end of the season. Um and we're picking up, as Andrew said, we're picking up good results without some of our best players being available for the next month or so. Um and we've picked up four points from two from two uh tough games. Um and um you know we we've before that, you know, we narrowly missed, we m narrowly lost to Arsenal.
SPEAKER_01:Um and should have had a penalty.
SPEAKER_04:Should have had a penalty, absolutely. Yeah, and you can argue we should have had a penalty in the Burnley game as well. Um so um you've got to so to say that you know we we're on track for 56 points, which gets you over the last 10 seasons comfortably in the top half. Um, and I think even gets you on one or two occasions, even into seventh and eighth those European Conference League spots. Um you've got to look at that and say that's that's you know positive, and just taking some individual results um that sort of show us where we are. Um, I mean it's a bit of a running joke, really, that the I've not seen us win at I've not seen us win uh in the flesh this season, in there, but whereas Andrew has seen us win every single fucking time this week.
SPEAKER_01:Um so what you're saying, Adam, is you need to stop going to games and we just need to send Andy every time.
SPEAKER_04:Well I'm yeah, I mean I'm going to I'm going to two. Uh I'm going to two this month. Wolves Wolves and Leeds. Oh you're good.
SPEAKER_02:If we if you go and Wolves beat us, I know it will be my fault. You are you are banned banned from attempting to be.
SPEAKER_04:But it will be my fault if Wolves, who are, you know, since derby the worst Premier League team to disgrace the Premier League beat us, then it will be fully, you know, completely my fault. Um yeah, going there with Andy on on Wednesday. Um oh wait, so you're going together.
SPEAKER_03:I wonder what the Yeah, so it'll be like we're gonna draw.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. One of those aforementioned records has to give next uh next Wednesday. That's funny. That's funny.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Um so uh you take you look at like you know, Newcastle, um at Newcastle and Spurs, two games where you don't you know we didn't turn up, we were we were poor, particularly the Newcastle game. But then you've got games like you know, you haven't got you haven't got three of your normal front uh front four against Forest the other night, and you you know you you you deservedly win 2-0, and then you you don't have some of your best players at home to Arsenal, and you arguably should draw that game against the team that are the bet you know the best team in the league. So we're eighth in the league, we're five points from fourth, we're also five points from from fifteenth because of the the league is so tight at the minute. So we're we're about where I would hope us uh where I'd hope we were uh we we we should be, and uh and I you know we'll get on to like you know the the um the rest of the season uh a bit later, but where I would hope we would be around this around that number of points as opposed to necessarily the position um um uh towards the end of the season.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and especially as you compare it to, as you say, previous seasons. You used the phrase flirted with relegation, which is like the common thing. I mean, I at some points in the previous seasons it was less flirted, it was more bought a dinner, got a back in the car on the way home.
SPEAKER_02:Like we were we were way past, we were way past the floor.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah, we were we were yeah, we're we're at penetration mode on the uh Jesus This is a family podcast, notionally.
SPEAKER_02:I I was subtle about it, Adam.
SPEAKER_04:Come on, like I'm more disgusted at the fact I just used the word mode. I mean, I've never used that in that context at all.
SPEAKER_02:Um let's just move on.
SPEAKER_04:I guess on the one I was referring to the Bournemouth 1-0 uh game, of course.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, of course, of course. Um Jesus, I don't I don't even know where to go after that.
SPEAKER_01:Um but yeah, I think the if you look at there's been a couple of things around this tweeted. I can't pull them up in front of me because I haven't seen them, but like if you compare the number of points we've had, like going into the new year, or the number, or the point at which we got to there was one I can't remember who it was after we beat, but it was the point at which Everton had got to 18 points in the Premier League. And this season we did it at like in early November, and previous the three previous seasons we hadn't got there until like early February. Um, it's just you know, we are light and day away from away from um where we've been in previous years. A couple of other players I want to I want to sort of touch on. I think obviously Garner for me has been one of the players of the season. Um, I've been really impressed, but two people that I I haven't really seen a lot to talk about, but I think I've long thought this, but like Jake O'Brien at centre back is an absolute like monster. Against Forrest, he was just incredible. And I think we'll come on to trend your transfer window. I think signing a genuine right back, so then you can then move O'Brien into the middle full time, I think will be a huge boost to us. And the other one that I've been really impressed with, he hasn't played a lot because he's been injured. But every time I watch Merlin roll, I'm like, oh, there's like there's a real good player there. Um, you know, good energy in the midfield, drives the ball, carries the ball well. So, you know, we've got him with an obligation to buy. So he's he's he's gonna be ours for um uh come the end of the season as well. So so I think that's a good um he's worth worth mentioning as someone I've been impressed with. And also I'm just really pleased for Tierno Barry, um, because you can see he's like trying really hard, and there's those two goals he scored, both ironically, actually against Nottingham Forest, and both very similar kind of goals, like you know, one-on-ones where he finishes well, which you know historically, um not necessarily the strength of Everton strikers, but I'm really pleased that he started scoring because hopefully that will, you know, give him a bit of confidence, take the take the proverbial monkey off his back, and then you'll be in a position to you know keep keep going with that. So you know, I think we've got some really, really great positives to take out of the first um first half of the season. Looking forward, let's let's think about it this way. And Adam, I'll come to you first. What would be the position of the in the league come the end of the season where you would feel disappointed that we've finished given where we are now? If I told you right, we've finished X, what would that number be where you'd feel like, oh, that's disappointing?
SPEAKER_04:I think it's difficult to say because um because the league is so uh tight at the minute, um I I think that will I think two things. First of all, I think that will that wouldn't it won't be obviously this tight come the end of the season. I think that will obviously naturally um there'll be a natural gap between different positions. Like I said before, though, there's ten points between fourth and fifteenth. Um so I what I would say is if you if I to answer the question in the way that you want me to, I think I would say anything below uh like twelve, I think, is would be disappointing for me. But the num it's the number of points, I think, because um Sean Dysh in the season where we got uh had the deductions, he got us 48. Um, you know, 48 points on the board. Um obviously that that's that's uh including the including the eight that we were tick we got um deducted. Um you're looking at you know the the we're on track for 56, you know, so nearly three extra wins over the course of the season, playing better football, looking more like a team that can has a more solid foundation to progress footballing wise. Um so I would say that I think what we what we I think what we need to do better, because I think Moyes has expected expectedly put us in a in a good in a good um position defensively. We saw that against Nottingham Forest, caveat the fact that Andrew and I were talking about this earlier about Sean Dyce not being able to vary is a uh attacking approach play in any way, shape or form. Um against Forest. But we've conceded 20 goals, but we've also only scored 20 goals. So goal scoring is obviously a problem. I think the only time I think we've only we've only scored two or two or more goals um this season, off the top of my head, I can think of you know um Forest 3-0, uh, I think uh obviously um Forest 2-0 as well, I think Fulham as well. Um there's not been many occasions where we've we've where we've scored more than two goals. Obviously, there are others that I'm forgetting, like Brighton, for example. Um so I think that's something that uh we obviously need to develop, but you would much rather have it that way round than the other way around because defend defend being being defensively solid is a lot more um uh an important foundation than the other way around, where you've got mid 90s Newcastle trying to outscore the opposition and to hell with defending. Um so I think yeah, anything anything less than about 12th and let and and fewer. Than like I would say 52 points would be disappointing, I think, for me, given the the start we've made and the fact that the freaking group have said you know that we there is there is money to spend um there is money to spend and we obviously have loan options as well in the January transfer window.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I agree with you on that, the defensive solidity. You know, that is famously how how Deich, you know, built the team and makes a living, right? Although it's interesting. It's I after I after Everton games, my uh social media feeds, my TikToks are always filled up with like analysis from opposition fans. Um so I've got a lot of like forest analysis and the number of people just going, the football shit, we're all for the football shit. And I'm like, welcome to the Sean Dyes experience. He'll he'll keep you up, you'll probably finish 17th, but the football is god-awful, uh, and you kind of need to get used to that. Um, Andy, same question to you. Where would you come the end of the season? I can show you the Premier League table. Where would you be disappointed if you saw us?
SPEAKER_00:Before the season, I think I had us pretty good to just finishing 13th or 14th, if I recall correctly. Since the season has progressed, and obviously we're halfway through it now, I'd probably be disappointed if we finished in the bottom half. Um, I'm a slightly more optimistic than um than than Adam about how where we can finish. I think if we finish below, you know, 11th or below, I mean, disappointment, you've got to take disappointment in context because obviously at the start of the season, 11th, you know, again, we'd have all said thanks very much, we'll have that all day long. But I think we, you know, I think we're definitely in a position to be able to kick on and and finish in the top half. The only thing I will say about that, and it's been alluded to already, is you can throw a blanket over the clubs between sort of seventh and fourteenth, fifteenth in the league. It's very, very congested.
SPEAKER_01:Um, you know, two wins not in even seventh. Chelsea are fifth with 30 points, and Brighton are 14th with 25 points. So there you go.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so it's yeah, it's even it's an even larger set section of the league. Yeah. So two wins fires you up the table, two or three defeats sinks you sinks you down. Um, so it it's it's it's gonna possibly, you know, will it be as tight toward the end of the season as it is now? Obviously, time will tell. But I definitely think we're capable of um finishing, you know, sort of ninth, tenth, because we're halfway through the season now, so all those teams in that central zone are capable of beating each other on any given day. So there's no reason why we can't finish, you know, in the in the in the top half.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I interestingly, having asked the question in that way, I think we've all come to slightly different conclusions because I had 14th in my mind as the place where we finish 14th or lower, I'd be like, oh, that's disappointing. Because that basically means you're we are at the bottom of that that group of teams, basically, um uh currently. You're you're close because essentially what you've got is you've got Wolves who are away by themselves, you know, hoping that they can get enough points this year that we qualify for a driving ban were they on a license. Um, and then you've got Burnley who are probably falling away, and then you've got this group of like West Ham Forest. You put leads in there there, they are seven points clear of West Ham. And then you've got everybody else. You've essentially got a bottom five, you've got, well, you've got four and then wolves, and then you've kind of got this big middle tier, um, which goes from Bournemouth in 15th on 23 points, arguably all the way to Liverpool in fourth on 33. That's 10 points over, you know, uh the league. And then you've got the top, the top three, um uh Villa, Man City Arsenal. So, yeah, incredibly tight league. I I think I think my view is kind of coloured a little bit by the pre-season view, which was basically like, as long as we're not in a relegation battle, and we are not in a relegation battle. So I I'd be my dislevel of disappointment would just be like, oh, if we finish in the bottom of that sort of group of teams, I'd be kind of disappointed. Because I think to your point, Andy, I think we have the ability to finish, finish much higher than that. And I think like, you know, it I don't think we will, but is there a world where I could see us now being one of those conference league places, depending on how far they go down the league, because of you know who wins what cup and all the permutations they do at the end of the season? You could easy a world where eighth gets a, I think there's a world where eighth gets a you know, conference league place. I could see us taking that. I could, I mean, that's where we are now. And I think if you get we get through this period where Ghana and Ajay are away at AFCON and you get a couple more bodies in the door in January, then you know, there's no reason why we can't have a as good, if not better, second half of the season compared to the compared to the first. I think the goals, especially if the goal scoring starts to pick up, because that was obviously the massive problem, but Barry starts to you know starts to chip in with them on a more regular basis. He's got, you know, he's got two in the last um couple of weeks now. So hopefully that unlocks um unlocks his ability to do that a bit more. I'm I'm you know, I'm feeling feeling confident, but it's the goal scoring that's um that's got to be got to be the one. We actually have the I'm just looking at the table now, we have the fourth best defensive record in the league. Only Sunderland who have conceded 18 goals. We've conceded 20. Sunderland have conceded 18. Um City have conceded 17, and Arsenal have conceded 12. Um but the flip side of that is that we have the joint second worst goals scored in the league. Only Wolves, it will not surprise you, um, have scored fewer than us. They've scored 11. And then we are joint with Burnley, and funnily enough, Sunderland, who have all scored. Oh, sorry, Forrest as well. Forest only scored 18. So it goes Wolves on 11, Forest on 18, and then us, Burnley and Sunderland on 20. So like that's clear, that's clearly where the where the where the challenge lies, but not an insurmountable one for sure.
SPEAKER_04:I think one thing to bear in mind, and uh you know, the I think availabil there's a lot of availability bias going on in terms of the media with Barry and Beto, I think, because I don't know if you've heard the the uh either you listen to the Guardian Football Weekly's um um review of um our game. Uh well they you know they're quite I can't remember who it was, but they were quite you know scathing of Beto and uh uh of um of Barry and you know take basically taking the piss um out of his goal scoring record. I can only I can only think of one chance against Sunderland that he's actually missed. Like glaring chances, he's had two other chances I can think of, and he's scored them both. Um and that's not just like anecdotal evidence because we've scored 20 goals, but our XG, if you want to use this as a metric, is to is just shy of 22. So that indicates that the the issue is not actually our finishing, it's the fact that we don't actually are creating, we're not creating enough chances for our strikers to be scoring. So you've got you've got this un almost like unfair, I think, narrative around Beto and Barry where they're like these cart horses who can't hit a barn door, and it's like I'm sorry, the evidence doesn't back that up. And the media have almost created have created this narrative that is now like a almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy where he scores and it's like, oh my god, he scored. And they use words like games, you know, like on the go and football they said about Amania Broge, I was listening to this earlier, about he didn't score in 40 get 40 Premier League games. It was his first goal against Bournemouth the other week in 40 Premier League games. It's like, but that's not games, that's appearances. How many minutes is that? That's the mech that's what you should be considering. How many minutes has Beto had? How many minutes has Barry had? How does he compare with how does he how is he comparing with the the the number of goals that he's scoring compared to other players who played the same number of minutes and the chances that are being created? It's like that's your job to do that, and I've just managed to deconstruct that in literally like five minutes and in whilst I was listening to you guys. So it's it so it it as you can tell, it annoys me that you have this. We can't we can't tell it annoys me that that happens, and also just wanting to sort of protect two players that are undoubtedly trying really fucking hard to do better, and they are the evidence you know, I'm not gonna sit here and pretend that they're good enough for to play Premier League football for us like for the long term, because at the minute that then they're not, you know, the visual the visual evidence suggests that they're not, but the more that they play, the more that they get used to the system, they're only gonna get better. Um and I've said this before, you know, I fully trust any player, any, any player that's bought by under Moise's tenure is you know, gets my backing immediately because the evidence is that he's really astute in the pr in the transfer market.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, he's not here to defend himself, so I'm gonna remind everyone that Austin has repeatedly said that he doesn't think Tierno Barry as a footballer. Um so I just want that I just want that noted, um, given that he's two he scored two goals basically since Austin said that.
SPEAKER_00:Um just on the uh just on the point about Barry, it's worth pointing out as well that he's also had two, possibly three goals disallowed as well, only one of which was actually his fault. I seem to recall it hit his arm and then he put it in. But the other goals, other people either handballed it or offside. So you know, the and I think as well, we often underestimate it it's a bit of a cliche, but it's a cliche because it's true. We underestimate how difficult it can sometimes be for a player to adapt to the Premier League. I mean, look at Florian Wirts or Anfield, a hundred million pound player, and it's only in the last few games that he's started to not look like a square pig and a round hole in Liverpool's midfield. Um, so we often underestimate how difficult it can be to come from Spain or Italy or Germany or France and move to the Premier League. It you know, it it can take time to get up to up to speed with things, you know. The idea you don't you don't get time on the ball and and things like that. So I've no doubt that the second half of the season, I fully expect Thiano Barry to to score more than the two goals that he's managed in the first half.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I endorse that view entirely. I think we are overly critical of players coming from young players coming from different different leagues. Um totally agree there. All right, let's talk about talking about players coming into the football club, let's talk about January transfer window, which we are now in. Um I don't expect anything major will happen while AFCON's going on because there'll be lots of teams not willing to move like squad players or or give up good players whilst whilst they're a bit depleted. Um let's all cross our fingers that you know I want I want Njai and um Ghana to you know be happy, but I also want Senegal to lose at the earliest opportunity so they can come back, please, and thank you. Um so unfortunately they topped their group, and I was listening to a podcast the other day that described them as the second favourites for the tournament. So this could be this could be going on a while. Um but Adam we I mean we can talk about areas, but I suspect they're the same kind of areas that we've talked about um fairly consistently. Where do you see the gaps being and where would you be targeting as a manager? The one thing to caveat this with is that um I don't think this is breaking news, but because it happened maybe yesterday, but we've recalled Harrison Armstrong from Preston. So he is now coming back to help out a depleted central midfield, which basically only has three players in it currently. So that's it the that is the one piece of transfer news that we do have. Bad and talk to us about like what you would be you what you would be looking at.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I think bringing back Armstrong was was the right is the right thing to do. Um but and it's good that obviously I think it's uh my understanding is it's only going to be up until um uh until until the end of the January transfer window, and then he's basically being sent sent back. That was my understanding.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think I think the plan is basically like, hey, we want him back to cover whilst we've got these injury problems and AFCON, but assuming all else is equal at the end of January, you can have him back. I I that was my understanding of what they're doing as well, because they don't want Armstrong languishing on the on the bench, which is realistically where you would be for the second half of the season. But yeah, sorry, carry on.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Um and it'll obviously come as no surprise that you know the the the glaring um position that we need to strengthen is is right back, but it's it's it's the right player because um you know from reading what Patrick Boylan in The Athletic was talking about is that there were uh a number of uh uh identified targets during the summer, but they didn't uh they didn't meet uh they didn't meet Moys' um desire to balance the defensive solidity of Jacob Bryan um with the attacking uh um qualities that a new right back would need to need to have. Um because you know Jaco Bryan is we've seen that before with Moise when Lescott played left back over Leighton Baines for about half a season um when Baines was signed um back in um 2007.
SPEAKER_03:Um that uh if if if if a player is defensively solid, then he will play.
SPEAKER_04:So I mean I'd I'm I'm not sure of Nate, I I don't know enough uh to be honest with you about like to to name individual players, but I think what's important is that uh you're not going to do what uh you know look at uh you know look across the across the what what we would call across the park, we can't really call across the park now, across the in the uh in industrial estate and thousands of houses to Anfield doesn't quite have the same ring to it. Um uh that um Liverpool had where you know Trent O'Connor Arnold's defensive prowess was never was never his his thing, it was always his passing. But the thing is they replaced him with someone who is arguably worse defensively in Jeremy Fringpong, and they figured that out pretty quickly, and then Connor Bradley has been there, but then not been good enough attack-wise, so then they've put Dominic Saboshli there, and they can't figure out what to do because they haven't identified that that that sort of the defensive solidity that you need first and foremost from a right back, but also in the modern game, you know, you want your right back to be to be going forward, so that that'll be something something that we've undoubtedly been looking at since August, um, and with a with a clear idea of how much we can spend as well. And I'll be I'll be disappointed if we didn't, but I'll be honest with you, I wouldn't be totally surprised if we if we didn't. I would much rather, and evidence shows you again, you know, that January signings tend not to work out, particularly like strikers, which I'll go on to in a second. But um I I wouldn't be surprised if we we didn't sign a right back in in January, um, because I think Moys will go, I'm not, you know, I'm not just gonna sign anyone for the sake of it, when actually we can wait another you know five months and um and and get someone who we actually want in the summer. Um and then obviously the the stripe striker will be another thing, but I don't I don't know. I I alright 20 goals is disappointing, but you're looking at other players to to chip in with more goals, obviously. And Giads are top scorer with with four or with five, I think. Um and Jewsbury Halls obviously scored a few scoring a few more now where he's got you know, I think he's got four. But it's players, it it's those players like in that that that that three behind the striker that I will be looking at trying to contribute over the course of the season, at you know, maybe I don't know, like three or four four, four or five goals each, I would say, as opposed to Barry or or Beto being expected to go on like this prolific run, um, or buying someone outright, because um, you know, the only the only January strikers I can really think of off the top of my head that have been bought in January by teams was uh is is Newcastle bought um uh what was his name? Uh Senegalese guy because it's Cise. He was uh he was a revelation, and obviously Everton bought Nikichi Yelovic, but they're the only two that I can really think of off the top of my head, striker-wise, that have actually worked out in January. Um so I really don't want us to be throwing 30 plus million at a striker um in January because of you know, whether it be pressure from the fans, people look at our lack of goals when you can just wait five months. Because you know, we've we've got 28 points from scoring 20 goals. So it wouldn't be the end of the world if you end up on you know 40 45 goals towards the end of the seat towards the end of the season and and just getting the top half because you've got to keep it in the context of where you want to be this season, which is around mid-table. And the evidence from the first 19 games suggests that that with the players we have available now, that would continue. Uh yeah, so right back is a massive right back is the main thing, uh, but I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't get one, and I really don't want to throw in loads of money at a striker.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I I agree with that. I think, especially on the striker bit, I think you've also got to give Barry the time to because if you're buying a striker, you're buying what you're there's no point having a third backup. So you'd be buying someone to go, okay. Well, we want a starting striker. Well, okay, but why we spent 35 million on Barry in the summer, but you're not going to give him the time to adjust and just is coming to it. So I agree on the striker. The one that I would like to see, yeah, right back is like a given, because I think we've needed a right back for a while. But um the one I would actually think we need is is another, I think we need another number 10 attacking midfielder type, because I think everyone we play there, apart from maybe Alcaraz, is kind of playing out of position. Like Jewsbury Hall was be played there, but he is actually more of a, and he says this, he said this himself, he's more of a um um a box to box midfielder, a more of an eight to use the you know, the numbers tactical terms that we now all have to do. Um And then you've got Alcaraz, who is a 10 kind of, but isn't as reliable. I think he's a good impact sub. I don't think he's necessarily like someone you build your team around. So I think adding another person into that mix who is a genuine 10, not like an not like an eight or a six being played out of position, which I think is currently how we're kind of set up, I think would be would be where I would where I would be potentially um potentially looking.
SPEAKER_04:Where would that leave Harrison Armstrong though in long term? If you're buying someone who you would love to cut.
SPEAKER_01:Well, yeah, I mean I don't I I thought Harrison Armstrong is less of a 10 than he is more again an eight or a six. So I think he's a deeper player. And so I think I don't think buying I don't think buying a an attacking midfielder limits what you're doing with Armstrong. I also don't think it limits because it's you know if you're playing a formation where you are always going to start with essentially three central midfielders, right? Two two pivots and a and an attacking one, you need then at least six or seven to have rotation and have cover injuries and things like that. And addressing Garner gay, much as I love him, is not getting any younger, right? So like you look at if you you take him out of the squad, then you've got Garner, Iribunum, Alcaraz, Armstrong, Roll. Okay, so you've am I missing somebody? KDH, Chewsbury Hall. You've got so you've got six, right? I think there's perfectly enough space to for you to set sign an additional one there and it not be it not be a problem from a numbers game. I think as we're demonstrating now, injuries happen, you need to rotate. You want to be able to look at your bench and view yourself as having genuine options. So I don't view Harrison Armstrong's development being stymied by signing another another central midfielder. Um the right back thing, obviously, as well, because as I said earlier, the other thing that allows you to do, and I think like would it would be game-changing for us is getting Jake O'Brien into the middle. Because then if you have Branthwaite come back, and you know, you almost kind of forget he exists because he hasn't played at all this season, but and that's almost a benefit to us because it probably means no one's going to want to buy him. But if you were to say, like starting next season, your starting centre back pairing was Jared Branthwaite and Jake O'Brien with a right back and then Mikalenko at left back, I think you're in a really, really good, really, really good place. But having said all of that, I wouldn't actually be disappointed if we didn't sign anyone. Because I just think January is such a terrible time to do business. I think it's a terrible time to try and integrate people into the squad. Everybody knows that it's like a bad time to buy, so all the prices are all over the place. Combine that with AFCOM where no one really wants to be letting people go because half their, you know, in some cases, like three or four of their players are off in an international tournament and might get injured and stuff. Like, I just wouldn't, I don't think you need to force it. We're not in a position where it needs to be like, oh, we desperately need to sign a striker or we're gonna get relegated. We could sign nobody and finish comfortably mid-table, which we all would have taken pre-season. So, you know, lots of Everton fans will have a meltdown if come February 1st we haven't signed anyone. I won't be one of them because I just don't think there's a desperate need to force it right now. Right player, right price, great. I trust the trust Moys and the and the freakings and stuff to get something done, but I don't think it's a disaster if we come out of this window having not signed a right back or not signed another midfielder. But Andy, what do you think?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I'd agree with the comments that both of you have made over the last few minutes. I was gonna suggest that Stryker was up there with right back in terms of areas of the squad that need addressing, but Adams managed to convince me that um it's not as urgent. Um and right back, we've needed a right back for three or four seasons. I mean, the fact that Seamus Coleman, God love him, is still even in the the conversation about playing in that area of the pitch. We we've needed a right back for a few seasons. And to be fair to the club, they did think they'd signed Kenny Tete from Fulham in the summer, and then he obviously turned around and signed a new deal at Craven Cottage. Um, so you know the the the club sort of kind of you know were making good headway in terms of filling that area of the pitch and unfortunately just weren't able to do so. Um but I agree with what you said, Ben. If the right right player at the right price for a foot, uh definitely a right back becomes available, the club definitely need to um get that deal over the line. I'd still if we can sign a backup striker as well, I still think that wouldn't be a bad thing to have another option in that area of the pitch because it's obviously it's Barry or Beto, and the two of them obviously interchange. Barry's got his couple of goals he's spoken about. Hopefully, he'll have um a better half of the second half of the season already. I yeah, I think a backup striker would still be an important um addition to the squad if we can get the right player in. And I just hope that the club are looking down the football pyramid because I've said this before on pods, you know. Did we sign Jermaine Beckford in the summer, or was that a January signing? It must have been the summer.
SPEAKER_01:I think it was the summer because it was a it was a free transfer.
SPEAKER_00:He played a full season, yeah. So there must be strikers down there. I can't name any names, but of all the 72 or the clubs in the football league, there must be a striker down there somewhere who can come in and be a backup striker and and do a job when required.
SPEAKER_01:But this is the thing though, right? Like what what yeah, probably you could probably pick, you know, a couple of strikers from the championship. But for me, unless they're gonna displace one of the starters, it's just wasted money because they're just a third option on the bench. Like, I just don't in a system that plays one striker, where you have you also have Njai who can play there in an emergency as a you know, as a utility, like players are striker there. Like I just think like what is the point of because okay, you pick argument's sake, you're gonna need to take someone who is like high-end performing in the championship, right? Because you're not taking like someone who scored a couple of goals in the championship realistically, unless it's a really young player, which is you know a separate thing. If you're buying an 18-year-old who you're not expecting to contribute but is one for the future, fine, I can get on board with that. But if you're trying to sign someone who's gonna meaningfully contribute to a Premier League team, you're looking at someone who's probably top-end championship, right? Realistically. Well, well, that's what's that gonna cost you? 10, 15 million pounds in nowadays? So you're gonna pay 10, 15 million pounds to get someone who might be better than Beto, might be better than Barry to sit on your bench. Like, I just don't the economics of it just don't make sense to me. Like from a from a football club point of view, I would much rather you take that 10-50 million pounds and invest it, you know, in other places. Like if you're gonna like I would much more take that approach with a right back because I I think there's a meaningful world where a good a high-level championship right back can develop into a starting, a right back who gets in our team above the players that we have. I just don't realistically see that happening with with a with a striker. I just it's just not where I'd where I'd spend the money. And I I genuinely hope the club don't.
SPEAKER_00:I take the point that if you've got a system where you play one striker, you've got you know, one striker, you know, one of Barry or Beto starts and the other is on the bench. I can I can understand I can understand why you you might not want a third option there. I'm just playing, I'm just thinking, you know, what what if they both both Barry and Beto get injured, for example.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and that's now and that and now if you got the if they got injured in January, then yeah, of course, I would say like, okay, we need to go out and buy one, but like you've got to make do and mend. It's just about where you put your resources, right? It's like you can't you can't necessarily be in a position of going, well, because yeah, you could say, well, what if what if all our central defenders get injured, we need seven of them, but you like you realistically can't have seven, so you you just gotta make do with what you've got.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so that that that that that is that yeah, that is that is that is that is a fair point. I mean, and fundamentally you hit the nail on the head then when you said right player at the right price. If somebody becomes available at the right price that's realistic, and who the club think they can get, then um by all means go out and get them. But I do agree that if we don't sign anybody, this current squad is capable of carrying on the second half of the season as it's done the first half, getting somewhere well north of 50 points, and we'll finish in a position in the table that we all would have been very happy with at the start of a season.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and so just just um looking at uh at this um you know because I was curious, the current top scorer in the championship is Adam Armstrong, right? Who is plays for Southampton, used to play for um used to play for Blackburn before he um before he moved to Southampton for 15 million pounds. He I'm just looking at this whilst I Google, um I'm just trying to get his stats from when he was in the Premier League, right? He scored uh he scored two goals in the first season. It looks like he was a January signing as well, but then they went down the next season, like with him. So it's kind of one of those things where it's like, yeah, that's what if that's what you're buying. And now he's so he is the best striker in the Premier in this championship right now. He didn't do Jack in the Premier League. Like, and I'm not saying that like that is the there are there are no players in the in the championship that that can do a job, but like the bar for finding someone who is actually useful in in the Premier League is like really, really, really, really high. Um, you know, oh so Adam Armstrong in the Premier League um has played made 88 appearances to Adam's point earlier, 88 appearances and scored six goals. So, like like better barrier game. Like we've yeah, and he is literally the best, he's literally the best striker in the championship right now.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, those yeah, I take the point completely that those stats aren't any better than certainly aren't any better than what we've got now. And also, as well, two names that are in the championship now, Josh Sargent at Norwich and Patrick Bamford, who is currently at Chef United. They've both been in the Premier League in previous seasons with um different well, Sergeant with Norwich. Bamford was with Leeds, I believe, and they both struggled to score goals. Yeah, so yeah, it is a very, very, very fair point that the bar is is very high.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, like I'm just looking at the list. There's no one there like Joel Galhart, who is the former Spurs, I think it's former Leeds player, I think actually, who's at Hull, you know, he's the third leading scorer in the championship with 10 goals. But when he was at Leeds, he couldn't get in their team ahead of Patrick Bamford. Like, it's it's just I just think it's I think this idea that there's this you can just sort of dip downwards to get someone of Premier League quality is like is just not actually true. Um, I think our view of it is is is covered a little bit by the Tim Cahels of the world and the field like we've done a really good job historically over the years, but if you look at that, that is the exception rather than the rule. Sorry, Adam, carry on.
SPEAKER_04:No, sorry. I think I think you can pinpoint examples where it has worked, but those are examples which obviously, because of the purposes of your argument, they will stand out more in your they'll stand out more. You think of like players like you know, not necessarily strikers, but Andy Robertson from Hull, you know, making the step up for Liverpool being absolutely fantastic, Jared Bowen from from the same club. Um, and obviously the best striker exact example from the championship is you know via via Portugal is Victor Yokhares. Um but you know he's not exactly tearing up trees for Arsenal, one goal in his last 10 appearances from open play. Um so I I I agree. I I don't think the likelihood of Beto and Barry getting injured are minute and you can't necessarily buy for the for the you know for for that for the for that reason. And we're not we're not gonna get we're not gonna get better than Beto and Barry in the January transfer window. Um that would want to join, that would want to join Everton. I think if if a player were to become available for whatever reason, I think there would be other clubs that would be much more um across the continent that would that would want them and be better suited, be better able to get to get hold of them.
SPEAKER_03:Any more on January transfer window?
SPEAKER_01:Anyone that you think might be on the way out. We've got a fairly small ish squad already, so I don't think we necessarily have huge um the ability to move people, but anyone we think might might be out the door.
SPEAKER_00:I can't think of anybody off the top of my head, but one thing the club do need to do is tie down the aforementioned James Garner to a new contract because he's out of contract at the end of the season. So if we do nothing else this transfer window, other than tie him down to a new four or five year deal, um I'd be quite happy with that.
SPEAKER_04:He does have um there's a club option for an extra extra 12 months. Oh, is that pressing as with that?
SPEAKER_02:Right, oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:I think without with if that weren't the case, then absolutely we we'd be furious that the club have allowed this situation to happen. Um but yeah, we've got an extra 12 months, so it's 18 months before he will leave anyway. But I agree, right? From what I've read is that you know he wants to stay, but he wants parity with some of the best the best players that we that are best players, which is absolutely fair enough. Um and it's obviously working that in the new constraints around the you know the freaking group of and and they're they're being a lot more um a lot more sensible with um with our with uh with the money choices. But I agree, James Dotton is comfortably one of our best players and deserves you know to be one of our one of our top earners. You know, I think he's someone who is a genuine case to be to go in go into the World Cup um as part of that as part of that group of uh of players that could work alongside um Declan Rice.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um sorry, I was just reading a BBC article called 11 EFL players who could be on the move in January, um, sparked by our conversation. Um Josh Sargent, funnily enough, is is is on there, but the reported the the the fee, you know, the talked about fee is 15 to 20 million pounds, um, which is kind of again to my point, like what do you get in there that you know you just that feels like 15-20 million pounds you could spend elsewhere. The only one I think might be on the move, um, and I think this is partly dependent on how Moyes views Dibbling and whether we get in another attacking midfielder winger. I wonder if Dwight McNeil might be someone who um moves on, not because I think he's been bad or not useful, but I think Sean Dice loves him. Dice tends to, you know, um want the same type of players that he's worked with before. So I wonder whether there's a deal to be done where with with McNeil um to Forest. Um that would be the only one looking at our squad where you go, actually, maybe that's someone who you could a spare and probably if you think about saleable assets in terms of players who aren't in your sort of first 11, but could probably still command a decent, you know, a decent fee. Because McNeil's what? He's 20, 25, 26. He's 26, right? So he's still, you know, peak of his career. We signed him for 20 million pounds. If you could get 20 million pounds for Dwight McNeil and invest that in, you know, two or three, you know, two younger, dibling-esque players to, you know, build out the squad and and and potentially get some refell value, that's where I think you dip into the championship, right? If you could go, we sell Dwight McNeil, and then we want to buy these two or three 20, 21-year-olds who are, you know, looking really good in the championship and building for the future that way. I I would totally agree with that where you're building it for the for the wider squad. But that's the only one I can really think of going out, unless we sign. I think if we sign a right back, I suspect Nathan Patterson goes on loan somewhere to try and recover his career, which has obviously been dogged by injury and and you know not adjusting to the Premier League, which is a real shame because I think he's um when he came to us, he was like the next big thing in Scottish football, which it might not sound like it's saying a lot, but like he was widely regarded as one of potentially the best right backs in certainly in the UK, you know, and the ability to grow and play way above above the level that he's ever shown here. Although, as I said the other day, you forget for that period under Lampard where we started that season, you know, we started really well playing, we were playing a 3-5-2, so we were playing as a wing back. Patterson was one of our best players, and there was a point where he got injured where everyone was like, Oh, that's actually that's a disaster because he's been playing incredibly well. So, like I don't I don't think it will work out because I think it's past the point where it's going to, but part of me really hopes that it does.
SPEAKER_04:There's a good player there. I think um I think he's just a victim, unfortunately. You've got he's had two managers, post-lampard, um, whom value defensive solidity above everything else in their fullbacks. Yeah um and and the system that that both team both both managers like to play does not suit a player like um Patterson. Although you know he obviously played against Forest, and you know, he was he was good. There was only that one lapse at the back post, but apart from apart from that, you know, he did he did a good he did, I thought he did a good job. And obviously, uh anywa anyone will struggle against a player like Callum Hudson or Dorothy. Yeah um so um I think he he's he's an option, but I think he'll I agree, I think he'll be looking to looking to move on uh himself as well because I think he knows his time time with us is is probably up. Um yeah.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Alright, um before we finish off, let's do let's do score predictions for um for the weekend where we are playing Brentford. We have Brentford and then Wolves um inside the next week. So tell you what, let's do score predictions for them both. So we're playing Brentford on Sunday. Um uh you're listening, we you might not be listening to this on Friday. We're recording this on Friday. You're listening it to whenever you're listening to it. Um so let's do score predictions for Brentford and then Wolves at home. Uh Adam. Go first.
SPEAKER_04:Ryan through a good team. You know, Keith Andrews has done a marvellous job with them, considering you know, nine years under Thomas Frank, and I I was one of the people who whom thought that uh they would they would be um pretty much nailed on for for relegation, to be honest, particularly you know, losing and Buemo and and Wissa in the summer. Um so that they're a good team, and you never the thing is you never know really what you're gonna get with with Brentford. Um but um their away record isn't great, uh, but we are also missing you know a lot of players, and we I don't think we can really manage to I don't think we're gonna manage to do what we did against Forest two weeks on the bounce. So I'm I'm gonna predict a draw for this one.
SPEAKER_03:I'll go with um I'll go with 1-1. And then Wolves. Um the Wolves are gonna beat us 3-0.
SPEAKER_01:Um see I no without spoiling it, I was gonna go for Wolves to beat us as well because that is the most Everton thing to happen. If I don't know who wolves are playing at the weekend, they have to win eventually. If wolves if wolves don't beat whoever they're playing at the weekend, they will beat us because that is what Everton do. Um the only Premier League the Wolves have beaten one Premier League team all season, and that was us in the cup.
SPEAKER_00:You know, that was so they're gonna beat us. Wolves are at home to West Ham tomorrow, so today the third.
SPEAKER_01:As a a relegation 12-pointer, that one.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, fuck if you can't beat that one, if you can't win that one. Uh okay, so Adam's going for a draw against Brentford and then a loss to Wolves, um, because that's the Everton way. Andy, go tell us what you want. Tell us what you we're gonna get.
SPEAKER_00:Brentford have had a very, very similar season to us. Um, they're one point behind us in the league, and that they've scored 28 goals. We've scored the aforementioned 20. Uh, their goal difference is only two better than us. So on any given day, any win, lose, or draw, any of those three results is possible. I think it'll be one all as well. I I think it'll be a draw. The the forest performance, just to touch on that for a moment, the forest performance at the Citiground the other day was truly magnificent with the players we had out, the the team, the the tactics, it was an it was a masterclass in getting a result where you soak up pressure create and score chances on the counterattack. So can we so yeah, Brentford won all, and I think we'll beat Wolves. I think we'll I think we'll beat Wolves 2-0 because I think regardless what happens um their game tomorrow against West Ham, I just think their their confidence is going to be so brittle. Getting Rob Edwards in as manager um just hasn't worked out at all. Their performances just haven't improved sufficiently. Um, and quite frankly, to only have three points in at this stage of the season is an embarrassment. Let's call it what it is. I mean, you know, if if if if nothing else, at least try and make sure you you you stay solid defensively, get a few nil-nils, and at least give yourself a platform to build on, but they're just not even capable of doing that. I now fully expect these um words to come back to haunt me.
SPEAKER_01:We all know we all know how this ends, and and just like we just need to get over it already. Like they're going to beat us. So, Andy, what are you going for?
SPEAKER_00:I'm going for one all in the Brentford game, and I have got every confidence that we will beat Wolves 2-0.
SPEAKER_01:Uh I'm gonna go for we're gonna beat Brentford 2-1, and then we're gonna lose 1-0 to Wolves. Because that is that is that that is the most evident. I will caveat, I will have a you know, a decision tree. If wolves beat West Ham at the weekend, we will beat Wolves. If wolves don't beat West Ham, Wolves will beat us. Um, we will be if wolves haven't won a game by the time they play us, they will beat us, because that is just that is just what happens. Um because we are Edison and continue to be.
SPEAKER_00:And yeah, just on the point of the result, but going back to some of the earlier results that we've we've mentioned, you know, going away to Manu and winning, going away to Forrest and winning, going away to Bournemouth and winning, isn't it great to be in a position where those results take any sort of pressure off? But you know, we're not going into any games. I was talking to Adam about this earlier on today. Um there's no games now where it's a must-win, yeah, because the pressure is totally off. Even if it'll be disappointment in it, obviously, if Wolves do beat us, but uh but it's not the end of the world.
SPEAKER_01:The best thing, the actual best thing about that is that I was able to watch Leeds Liverpool the other day with no split loyalties about a relegation fight. I just wanted Leeds to win. Yeah. Whereas in previous seasons you'd have been like, oh, I don't want Liverpool to win. But if Leeds win, that's bad for the relationship. I was like, no, I want Leeds to win because it doesn't matter because we're not going to get relegated. It's an incredibly freeing way to watch football to just be like, do you know what? The relegation candidates who are playing Liverpool, crack on. They should win. Um I want them to. Um, all right, that is all we've got time for um on this podcast today. So thank you so much for joining us. Um, thank you for joining Andy and Adam. Um, we will hopefully not leave it, you know, two and a half months before we do the next one. We will try to be better. Um so uh follow us on other socials, uh, rate and review the podcast. Um, do all those things, share it with a friend. Uh up the fucking toughies. Thanks very much.