Blues Brothers Everton Podcast
Blues Brothers Everton Podcast
Spurs Preview and Striker Questions
Do Everton actually need another striker? Are Spurs any good? How funny are Liverpool right now? We answer all the biggest questions on the latest episode of The Blues Brothers Everton Podcast.
All right, welcome to episode something of the Bullies Brothers Everton podcast. Uh well it's since I I basically I I I caused this problem because I stopped putting the uh episode numbers on the show title. So it's now an extra step to figure out what episode it is. So we'll we'll figure it out maybe at some point in the future. Uh I'm Austin, uh good to be with you. Adam's here. How are you doing, Adam? I'm good, thank you.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I just got back from uh four days in Berlin, um history geeking, which I really enjoyed. Yeah, how are you?
SPEAKER_00:I'm very well. Adam knows more about the World War II, about World War II than most of us have forgotten. Um so uh I think I said that the wrong way around. Yeah, I'm very good. I'm very good. Look forward to uh getting back to uh football. I kind of um uh uh I hate uh international breaks and then I hate losing, and that's what we've had. So uh I'd sort of written the Man City game off in my head. So I look forward to getting back to proper football. I can get excited about this weekend. Um we're gonna talk about Everton a bunch, we're gonna talk about Spurs, we're gonna talk about strikers. Um I want to start though a little bit differently. We've talked about Sean Dysh, who's now in uh Nottingham Forest, he won his first game yesterday um in the Europa League. I think it was the first time he'd managed in Europe, I think. Could be am I wrong about did he get Burnley into Europe at some point?
SPEAKER_01:He did, yeah. And it's uh they came seventh uh in one of the Cup, which won, but yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So um first time in a while at least. Uh and they went together. They actually played pretty well. Um, I mean, they've got good players. What do you think about? I mean, uh we all have sort of I think somewhat complicated views on Sean Dyes, I guess. But the um what do you think about him uh Forrest, Adam?
SPEAKER_02:I mean, the it's a safe appointment, which I think is uh sort of what they were probably going for at this point. I think with the the good start that the three promoter clubs have had, the likes of Wolves, um, you know, West Ham, who, as far as I'm aware, are still currently losing to Leeds um as we speak, um, and Forrest, um it's fair to say that at least one of those is going to get relegated this season. And it strikes me as like the sort of Aladice appointment that we made in 2017, where you know you make a poor start uh and you know you just you just hit the panic button a little bit and get in someone who's got a safe pair of hands because especially because Forest, you know, they want to expand their stadium and um you know they've got a high wage bill, so um relegation for them will be catastrophic. So I think they just want a safe pair of hands, and Sean Dyesh will keep them up. Um but you know what you're gonna get with him, which is you know, he's already he's already dropped his many uh taglines of work, work, work. Um, you know, we need to work hard to score goals and under underlining the player's actual talent in his in his comments. Um and obviously they had a good start last night, but you know what you're gonna get with him, which is things will start well, he'll be pragmatic, he'll make them solid, but you know, uh a few months into the future the the football will be pretty stale, and uh the forest fans will reminisce for the you know the the days of the great counter-attacking football that they saw under Nuno. And just on that point, I mean it's absolutely it's it's just it's incredible how they've managed to get into this situation in the first place because obviously uh they brought in Edu as their global head of football because uh Forest are one of four clubs, I believe, in the Maranakis Empire. Umpiarcos being the the other main the other main one, and he's got Rio Avi, I think, in Portugal, and one other one, I think. Um and uh so he brought him in as like and and uh him and Nuno quite clearly didn't see eye to eye in terms of like the transfer business, and the sporting director pretty much always wins that wins that fight unless you're Marcel Brands. Um so the the writer was on the wall for Nuno, and his his comments made it clear that he wasn't happy and he you know he ended up leaving. But the then the stupidest thing was you then don't give Postacoglu the time that he actually needs to implement his style. You've got you've got players who are cemented in a particular system of counter-attacking football, and then he goes and basically takes someone who's the complete polar opposite and gives him 39 days, eight Premier League games. It's absolutely absolute madness, and it's show it's it shows you the um the mindset of Marinakis, which is the probably the most worrying aspect of the whole thing, really. And then they realise they're in that situation, they probably have conversations around right, we need someone pragmatic, uh so they you know get Sean Dyesh. And you know, the thing is at this stage of the season, you're not gonna get an awful lot of of uh of candidates that are gonna be high of of quality and probably someone that you really want and need. So I imagine it's more of a short-term thing than someone they actually want long term, but you'll he'll keep them up, you know, safely. Uh, but yeah, I'd be very disappointed, you know, over the since since uh you know they're 3-1 win at home uh in the first game of the season under Nuno, and you think things are going to continue to find themselves in the situation they are. I mean, I'd I'd be you know pretty um pretty upset if I was a Forrest fan right now.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's interesting with because you know, with Daiish, you you know, we we talked about it a lot over the years. 1.6-ish points a game, 1.4 to 1.6 points a game. You know, he's he's missed a consistent. And one of the things people have been saying, which I think is like half true, but the the half that isn't true is going to be the problem, is you have this sort of a bit of a narrative around, well, he's finally got the players of the talent, he can prove that actually he's more than this very limited kind of guy. And you know, if he can build that solid defense, that then you know the the forest attacking talent can kind of you know win games, which is you look at it, you go, yeah, that makes sense. But as we know, the reality is Dyesh does not allow attacking players the freedom to play that way. He's you know, if you look at someone like Illumin and Dai, who was you know, he's undoubtedly the was you know our best player under Daich, you know, he's not obviously not there for long, but the the the uh the step forward under Moyes is like unite and day in terms of his his his play. So it's not just having the players, it's it's Daich actually not being so rigid and in his requirements around defensive responsibility. And that's the thing around like if you take someone who's you know, and you know, you played a 4-3-3 last night, so it makes sense for that squad. If you take the two sorts of wide attacking players, the difference that they experience is profound between uh, you know, a sort of Nuno counter-attacking football where it's like, right, when we get the ball, you go. Deich versus Deich, who basically says to his fullbacks, don't cross the halfway line, more or less. I mean, essentially. So you know, and and that is a profound difference to how those attacking players can perform. So I think actually it's gonna be a bit of a slog, and that they'll they'll keep him through to the end of the year. I think so. He won't get relegated because he'll win a bunch of winnable games and be hard to beat, and that's great. Uh, but there'll be a decision to prefer them to make at the end of the year when I think Marco Silva's compensation at Fulham expires, and uh I expect that to change because he may think he's taken Fulham as far as he can. Um, but I like that all said, I I actually like Deich as a human more than I like him as a football manager. I think he's fundamentally like a likable guy, and I think we owe him a great debt because we were an absolute basket case. I mean, uh you know, I think he was sort of holding the things together through sheer force of sort of personality for a long time, and and I think I'll I'll be very, very grateful to him for that. And I don't you know, wish him well. I have affinity for Forest as well. You know, we you know, you're you're how far are you away from the city ground right now, about 12 miles or something? Like you know, where you know, we we sort of grew up like close to there and uh know a lot of Forest fans, and they're a good club. And and I I think you know that I was pleased that they made that appointment, but it is gonna come down. He's not gonna Marinakis was pissed at Nuno for not getting him in the Champions League. He's gonna be fucking furious at Sean Dyes come the end of the season.
SPEAKER_02:He did a he did overall he did a really good job, you know, with us, and uh, you know, the the the points per game that you you alluded to was um you know is well worth mentioning because obviously that in that season where we came um well how many points did we actually in the deduction season? How many points did we actually get minus the deductions? It was 40.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it was like 4080 or something. Yeah, something like that. And we'd have finished on the you know level with Brighton or whatever, you know, it was like a completely reasonable, and given the quality of our squad, a completely reasonable result.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and um I remember the first game, it the first game when Dyes was sacked, and it was Baines and Coleman took charge of that that first uh game, and I think it was in like the FA Cup or something, um against some like Cheltenham, I think it was, or something like that. And um and the first thing I noticed was Mikhailenko and I can't remember who was playing right back at the time, it might have been Garner, um were much, much further up, and that was the first thing that I noticed because, like you said, Dice just plays this very pragmatic, like no, you are going to stay in basically this this uh you know agreed uh square footage of the pitch.
SPEAKER_00:He keeps five players back. I've watched a lot of Sean Dyes football, and he keeps five because what there's certain things that are said about him is not true. It's like it's just all on balls. Not actually true. It's not no, it's not pressing really well. It's pressing very good. His main MO for scoring goals is high turn high, and it's different to counterattacking. It's it's not really sit back and absorb pressure and counter-attack, it's it's press high, win the ball back in situations where you've got an overload because the opposition have got the ball and they've commit, they're expecting to attack, so they're they're in their attacking positions. You're you you can move quickly. It's very different to Nuno, who didn't want to do that. He wanted to low block. So, you know, and then hit on a catjack. But yeah, Dyesh wants five players behind the ball, basically, you know, and and you know, back four plus one. And and then, of course, you generally play in a goalkeeper. So that means you've got five uh players who can attack. Then you're probably up against you know, in most situations, a defensive unit of at least eight outfielders, you know, or or seven outfielders. So the the you just it's very, very hard to generate overloads that way. And and you know, it's why Everton didn't score goals. No, we didn't really have the players to counterattack, but he didn't really had, he's not gonna do it. You know, what he's gonna do. It's interesting with last night with Porto. Um, I keep saying last night, I think it was it last night, yeah. It was last night. Um last night with Porto, they they scored two penalties, now they were they were both penalties, and you've got to get the ball in the box to get a penalty, but you know, it was two penalty. So that's the it's it's not the it really it is actually, you know, it's interesting. I mean, I most football pundits don't know it's it's amazing to me. People can play football for 20 years and know nothing about it. And you know, people you say Nuno and Daiche are similar. It's like, no, no, not at all. Like Nuno has a very specific way of playing low block counterattack. Daish is pragmatic high press to try and win turnarounds. And I remember our first game, I think was it who do we play in our first game where he's managed Chelsea, and we beat them, I think. And uh and it was like it was that that was the thing. It was like, wow, we're like pressing really high and winning the ball back, and that's what he's gonna try and get used to do. So I I think it's gonna be, you know, so you know what you're gonna get, but it's not it's not gonna be what the media are saying, which is oh, he's that he's sort of a version of Nuno. He's absolutely not, and Nuno's finding that problem because they say West Ham will lose until it leads 2-0. Nuno is finding a problem of trying to get a squad that doesn't have any pace to play counter-attacking football now. I mean, you think these people like why does Anj Postakoglu take the forest job? Why does Nuno take the West Ham job? Like, do these people know like anything about the game? Could you like obviously that West Ham squad is not going to be able to play the way you want it to? Obviously. So why the hell do you take the job? You know, I know, I know well.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, maybe maybe maybe you will do the thing that you know uh people say that Amarim should do, which is to you know adapt your temporarily adapt your tactics to the squad, which is maybe what what we'll find that he does. I mean, obviously the evidence is that he is not capable of doing that so far, because I mean they weren't their best their best result was uh you know the way the way he game it was where they weren't you know they weren't anything to shout about. And obviously they I just what I was watching the uh first half hour of Leeds before jumping on this, and you know, they were they were pretty poor. Um didn't didn't have anything about them at all. I'd be worried if I were a rest West Ham fan.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I I agree. I think they're uh they have this them and wolves have a sort of smell of death around them to me. Yeah, you know. Um and I fancy Sean, they'll say about Dyes is I fancy more him more. I'd go to war with Sean Dyes. I wouldn't go to war with Nuno. You know, like the the I I just think in it in you know that he's he's probably actually gonna break them free like relatively easily, I think, but because he'll build some good momentum. But the the you know, I I I I think under pressure, I'm not convinced about Nuno in that situation. You know, sorry that may uh spiral a little bit, I suspect.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I agree. Um should we talk about Everton? Yeah, let's do it.
SPEAKER_00:All right, so you know uh how what's your feeling? We lost the last game against Man City. Um, you know, I mean Man City are now good again. Uh so and they've got Harland who's very good. So you know, it's one I kind of honestly kind of wrote off in my mind a little bit. Um before that, obviously, you know, generally I think feeling pretty good about uh you know overall the results we've had. How are you feeling as we go into I think you know, an interesting game against Spurs because good start but not flawless, and you know, they've proven a little bit vulnerable. So it's gonna be it's a it's an interesting one. I could I could make an argument for going either way, and I think we're gonna come to that. But what's your feeling about how you know how we're doing as we sort of rapidly approach the quarter point of the season or whatever it is now?
SPEAKER_03:Overall, I've been happy with how we've done.
SPEAKER_02:Uh I would I would hope I would hope at the start of the season and uh to be around where we are, you know, knocking about anything between 13th and 7th, which is you know, we are currently 11th. Um we've played uh the football we've played has been has been good, it's been much better than um what we saw in the final you know for the first half of last season under under Dyesh. Um individual performances of certain players have been fantastic, like Grealish and you know you mentioned Njai earlier, who has just been absolutely sensational, particularly in the last uh you know, couple of games, City especially. Um so overall I'm happy with how we're doing, and and the thing is we are we can't hope to be better any better than a mid-table side, um, to be honest, with the squad of players that we've got, and you know, given where we've been in the last few seasons. Um and um, you know, just talk about the the city game briefly. You know, I think uh Ben put in the group, it might think it was I think it was Ben put in the group, like it might have been Andrew, actually, whoever it was, one of the four brothers said that the main difference, and it sounds bloody obvious, but the main difference really was the fact that Man City had a striker who would take take their chances and we didn't, and we'll obviously go on to talk about that a little bit later on. Um but uh Michael Richards made a really good point on the the matchup match the day where he talked about how uh Tarkovsky and Keene did absolutely the right thing, like in what you're meant to do as a defender, which is cover the space and get into positions where the most likely where it's most likely gonna land. But Haaland and obviously they worked on training where Haaland just stopped his run and then just like and then it was hung into space for him. So there's certain things that you can't really do about against tip players like that because he is just unstoppable. So yeah, I I largely agree that I I wrote the city game off in my mind, to be honest. I wanted to see a good performance, and that's what we got. You know, we had chances. Beto had two good opportunities, and Jai performed really well. Um, you know, we could have on another on another day, we might have taken the lead and then it might managed to cling on for a point, but you know, you can't be going to City and be disappointed by losing 2-0, to be honest, but where we are. So really happy with where how we started. And the the the Tottenham game is much more the sort of game where it's a good uh metric of of where we where we are and um uh and you know don't really know what you're gonna get with Tottenham. So it'll be interesting on Sunday to see how we perform.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's it's you know the striker thing is interesting. I know you wanted to talk about it, so let's do that now. Yeah, it's obvious. Let me let me give you a supposition first, and then I want obviously want to hear what you you think. I want to challenge a bit uh something that is said a lot online or the tone of something that's said online around this, which implies that like the club have only just realized which strikers they've got. And as if like us fixing this problem, same with the fullbacks, us sort of fixing this in the summer is like we didn't do it because we didn't think to do it, like they didn't realize, and it's like it it's it's it's such a weird uh sort of perspective problem to me versus the obvious reality, which is we have limited money uh and limited availability of targets as a team that's not uh in Europe, and you can't do what you would used to do, which is the old Tottenham hotspur approach, which is just pay people so much money that they don't give a shit that you're not in Europe basically. Like you can't we can't do that anymore, even if we have you know we have new billionaire owners, they still can't do it. So the club made decisions, and we can argue uh very legitimate to argue the prioritization was right or wrong. But this idea that they were just like didn't think of it or didn't think it was gonna problem is like absolutely mad because of course they know that we've got one young striker unproven, and I'm more I want to be generous to the kid, but I'm more on the skeptical side of Barry generally, because I just don't see anything there, but you know, obviously I'm very much hoping he proves me wrong. And then Bettos, you know, we know what he is, he's a technically limited player who tries very, very hard and is generally pretty good at finishing chances. Um, and I don't think anyone in the club, including Jake O'Brien, wants Jake O'Brien to be the long-term solution at right back. So anyway, I just wanted to get that off my chest uh because I see this every day and it drives me somewhat nuts. But Adam, talk to talk about strikers.
SPEAKER_02:I I largely agree. I mean, I'm I'm more in the uh more optimistic side of Tierno Barry. I think he's I think he's he's a lot more technical than than Beto, um, which will great respect to Beto is not particularly difficult. Um I'll come back to Beto in a second. Uh yeah, Barry's uh we've only played eight games and he's not had a good run. Uh you know, it's a very fit it's a very physical league and he is gonna need time to adapt and he's probably and I would it'd be fair to say that he's probably needed a bit he's he's requiring more time to adapt than probably what we would want.
SPEAKER_00:And I think the fact that I think he's been brought in as being our primary striker and uh better was gonna be the backup, but I don't think he's probably and do you think that's you you think that's the that was the intention, was that he was gonna be the primary striker?
SPEAKER_02:I think so, yeah. I I think so. I I think I don't think and Andrew makes this point, and he's and he's absolutely right, that the idea of like that teams can have 20 goal, every team needs a 20-goal striker, or it's it's a it's it's an absolute myth. Doesn't exist. Yeah, exactly. Like the last you know, last season, uh, you know, five players got 20 or more, which is more than most. Um last the season before that, only three players got 20 or more. The season before that, three. Uh season before that, only two players got 20 or more, and the season before that, two. So and and these are the same names. These are like players like Harry Kay, Mohammed Salah, Salah, um, Song Hyun Min, Erling Haaland, Kane. Yeah, you know, these players are playing for the top teams. So the Chris Wood and Brian and Boomo were but sort of the the uh the anomalies in that, really, where they got they scored much many more goals for teams that you would not necessarily say would would score that many goals. So the idea that Everton could bring in a 20-goal season striker is a myth. So that's why we then brought in players like Jack Grealish, who A will create more, but they also be expected to chip in with goals, which is why Moise has said that he needs to shoot more. Um, and then you've got players like you know NGI who will get in more goal scoring opportunities, um, you know, and you've got um uh Jewsbury Hall as well, who will play attack and midfield. So you got your goals are gonna come from different places. So the idea of like Barry coming in as being like a this goal scorer was never never gonna be the the the uh the the sort of the I can't think of the word it was no he was never gonna be like the the focal point of like a a goal that the goal scoring prowess we were gonna have and he only scored 11 La Liga goals last season, but Villarreal qualified for the Champions League, so he showed that they they could get in goals from enough spake places and he was a focal point of a very good Villarreal attack, and that's the idea that we were, and that Beto would be a you know a capable deputy, and obviously it's not really worked out that way where Moys obviously can't quite decide who is going to be the main striker because I think they both lack things in the game. You know, Beto has probably uh some of the best movement of any striker in the league. His movement's absolutely fantastic. It's just as we saw in the city game, his movement's great. When he gets in that position, it's his it's his um chance taking that is the issue. Uh and then Barry is a more technical player, uh, you know, he's much better at laying it off, and he does he's not the he's not a sort of bumbling player that Beto is, but he's clearly struggling with the more physical side of the s of of the of the of the of the game. Um and he will come good uh because uh I just have uh I just have pretty much utmost face in in in players that Moise signs because he just very rarely gets it wrong. Um and he would have and he would have come in under the um under the expectation that he will work alongside any director of football, sporting director, whatever, uh in making these decisions about the players. Um so and just on Beto, I think what one thing to sort of point out is with Beto is that he didn't he didn't come through academies like the vast majority of footballers. He was working at a KFC in um in Portugal about uh seven years ago or so. So he was playing very, very lowly football in Portugal and has had this a rapid rise. So what's been talked about is that um I think Moyes made this point. He said he's not really learnt when he's younger, while when you're in your late teens, you're pretty much established in your position. If you're a striker, you're gonna be learning that sort of stuff. You know, you saw Lukaku and how powerful he was at Andalect when he was bought at 60, uh 18 for um at Chelsea. Uh and then when we got him and West Ham had him on loan, he'd already developed that because he'd obviously he'd worked on that part of his game coming through the Academy at Analect. But you see, with Beto, he's never had that because he's been playing in lower league football in his teens and his early 20s, so he's literally never had that idea of where you have to hold a player off and hold the ball up at the same time, which is a difficult thing to do, and it's obvious, and that's what he's apparently working on in training an awful lot now, and is finishing as well, of course. So it's a different it's a difficult situation. Like, do we need another striker? No, I don't think we do. I think we just need to train the ones that we have better and and and chip in with other goals. You know, our top scorer this season is in Jai, uh, which is you know no bad thing. You know, he's a guy who gets on in a lot of attacking positions. Um so I'm not worried about the striker situation, and to be honest, like if that's what we're really gonna be worrying about, you know, quarter of the way through the season when we're 11th, then you know, I'll I'll take that.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah, it's it's dramatically better than the the living nightmare we've been through the last sort of three or four years. I'm gonna pick a couple of things there because it's interesting how you're thinking about it. Start with Beto first. It's interesting you have a different view than I have about his limitations, because actually I don't I think he has missed some chances this year. I don't really think the ones against Man City I would count as that. I think there's a lot of luck in that. It's like something goes three or four inches one way or another. I would have said, actually, in general, his finishing actually when he doesn't have time to think about it, is actually a strength. I think he's instinctively because what watched him alongside Calvert Lewin, who I think really is a poor finisher, like really is bad at scoring goals. I think he instinctively has actually a very good ability to hit a ball head in. You know, the the Grealish's winner against you know the other week, you know. Um I thought it was harsh. People said, Oh, better better should have buried it. I think he executed a the perfect header. It was just the goalkeeper was in the way, which I know sounds sort of silly, but like the chance of that happening is very small. Like it's a big goal, you know, like he it was powerful, it was down, it was exactly what you're meant to do. Uh you know, so it the I think I'm not so worried. His finishing, I think, is is is you know, I'm not so worried about I think I he has obvious limitations as a technical player, and he can't play that way. Maybe he gets better at it. It's interesting with Barry, because one thing I'd pull out about Barry, and I don't want to judge the kid too early, he says before going on to judge him far too early. Is the thing that concerns me about him, no doubt physical physicality adaptability needs to adapt to that. That's hard, uh you know. Yes, yes, yes. It is it is the fact that he is not even getting in the positions to miss chances. I can think of one chance in a game he's had where he should have scored. And that's actually the thing that bugs me the most is uh I don't know if he has, and maybe this is something you are taught, and it's not realistic to expect it from someone who's at that stage in his career. But obviously he's technically capable of playing good football and can hold the ball up and some of his distributions good. But I just don't see him making movement in a way that troubles oppositions. And I think that's such a such an important job for a striker, uh particularly in the Premier League, is to be someone who the the the the opposition have to worry about. But you know, so that that someone like someone has to go with you or you pull people out of position. And you one of the great joys of having Jack Grealish in your team is that he takes up two defenders every single time he gets the ball, right? And Jai does the same thing. And and that's where you start to see, you know, that the maths of that obviously is then to your advantage because they can't do that to everybody. So I I that's the thing I'm sort of I it's really interesting. I hadn't considered that they signed Baric thinking he was going to be the the sort of number one. I'm gonna say if you judge him, and I don't want this is not his fault because he didn't he doesn't make these judgments. That seems like a wild misjudgment to me. Versus it would make much more sense if it was like, look, this guy's going to take a year, this is an adaption year, and he's going to be the guy next year. That makes sense to me. I think if you look, if that if that were their intention was as you as you speculate, I think they've really fucked up because I don't think that that kid is anywhere near being a Premier League striker. Not to say he won't get there. I'm you know, I'm sure he's that's possible, but he's nowhere near there yet. I mean, he's just not having any kind of impact on games.
SPEAKER_02:I think I'll make that judgment because, like I said, he played a lot for Villarreal last season and being a very good time. Um, and he he's given up Premier League, he's given up a Champions League football uh you know to come to the Premier League, and would he necessarily accept an adaption year where he's gonna play second string to another striker? I'm not really sure. I mean uh I suppose one way to look at it is on the one hand, you could say the fact that Beto starts sometimes and Barry starts sometimes, could that be evidence of the fact that, like I said, uh that one player, you know, he he wants he's not really sure which one he wants, or uh does he is he just trying to give you know Barry some game time to see what he's like, you know, to see what he's like? I don't know. Um with bet with Beto being the primary uh the primary striker. But yeah, uh go back onto your point about um because Barry Barry had uh Barry, uh Beto had that glut of goals um from uh under Moyes, didn't he? Where he went about I think about seven games for he scored about five or six goals. Yeah, you know, some some of which you know uh in uh you know that that really good consecutive run, he obviously got the goal against um against uh Liverpool. Um, you know, and he's and the thing is he's a strike, he's a confidence striker. Like he was he was he was in really good form then, and like you said, he didn't really have to think, he doesn't have to think about it. He's got the movement when he doesn't have to think, he's that that's when he's bet that's when he's at his best. It's when when he's low on confidence and he just needs you know it to go off. He needs to do what Jocharez did against Atletico Madrid when you know he sort of tackles someone and it goes in. Yeah, that that's the sort of thing that he needs, and like you said about his header, you know, he did that, he did everything right. You know, nine nine he does that another 99 times, it it probably get you know it go it goes in.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's his goal.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and uh um so yeah, I'm uh I think with I think with um with with players like I think we'll we'll probably see uh the likes of like in Jai and Jewsbury Hall and Grealish, I think. I think we might start seeing like the adaptation of how we play with them getting those players getting in the box an awful lot more than perhaps we maybe wanted to at the start of the season because we haven't got the strikers to get on the end of stuff um uh reliably.
SPEAKER_00:How do you feel about the idea? Some some fans have knocked around the idea of uh unjai playing up front. And essentially it's a sort of false nine, basically, you know, with the idea of like basically you have Dibbling on the right, Grealish on the left, and Jewsbury Hall and then Njai.
SPEAKER_03:How do you feel about that? I I mean I I'd love to see it.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, just because you never really know. I mean, Njai can you know he can take someone off, take someone uh on in a telephone box. Um he uh would I think I think he's good enough to play any sort of role across the front, to be honest. Like whatever you give him, he's gonna cause problems to defenders. My only issue is that I don't think we're necessarily a good enough team to consistently play through other Premier League teams because you do need to mix things, you do need to mix it up and go long sometimes. And you know Beto and Barry have uh uh haven't shown a fantastic ability to hold the ball up, but they're certainly more capable of doing that than than Njai. Although, having said that, we did see a clip the other day of Njai doing this, doing this thing.
SPEAKER_00:I I disagree with you. I think you can I think you can give the ball to him with three guys up his backside and he'll keep it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's a fair point. I mean, I did say I was just about to say little, right?
SPEAKER_00:So you you don't think about it, but actually, yeah, I think his his ability to keep hold of the ball is fantastic.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's a fair point. I did I'm gonna sort of contradict myself and go back on what I've just said actually, because I did I just remembered a little clip that I saw where he was doing this thing where he was he had like you know, one of those giant like gym balls that people use stretch on and stuff.
SPEAKER_00:Uh a bozy ball, I believe is yeah.
SPEAKER_02:He had one of those, it was just against a wall, I think it was just in his back garden or something, but it was against the wall, and he was sort of rolling it and like someone was throwing him a ball and he was kicking it back to them. So that's obvious that's obviously a method that he's using to you know, saying what I did before with like what what I was talking about before with Beto, where you need to hold someone off at the same time and keep your keep the technique. And uh yeah, no, I I I will I will go back on what I've said and I would agree that I think he would be capable of doing that. But you've obviously then got to sort of you've then got to see if there's gonna be a net benefit with him being up front as opposed to being the creator to couple.
SPEAKER_00:Well if he did it, if you did it, you see him dropping in, right? And then what you need, and this is actually where I think this wouldn't, I mean who knows whether it'll work or not, but the the thing that I'm skeptical about is what you actually want if you have a player playing that role, they drop in. So them him and Jewsbury Hall in this world are like in between the lines of defense and midfield, difficult to uh difficult to defend. What you then need is people running past in, right? And Jack Grealish is not going to do that, and Keenan Jewsbury Hall is not gonna do that. They both want to have the ball and play other people in. So then you've only really got it in this world dibbling, and we just don't I just don't know him well enough to know. So that's actually the floor is what I want is Ilium and Dai running in behind, actually. You know, so and of course you go, oh, actually, the player I really want doing that is Beto. So, you know, that that you sort of actually, this is where you sort of go, actually, I'd put and die in the 10 if you want to get that out of him. But a lot of this is what comes down to the you know the situation at right back, because if if we if you have a proper attacking right back, you know, Seamus Coleman in his prime, it would be a great at this. You actually can have Njai, yes, he's playing on the right wing, but really he could plays as a second striker and he pushes in. And and that, but we just can't do that because there's no, I mean, you see Ghana go out there quite a lot. There's no width on the right if Njai is not on the touchline, basically. So I think the you know in a way, I think to solve our striking problem, we need a right back because that's where I think actually everything gets balanced properly.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I agree. So I'll have to pause for a second. My thought, my one one of my children has just decided to join the podcast.
SPEAKER_00:Well, we'll uh we'll pick it up after this parenting interlude.
SPEAKER_04:Can you hear me?
SPEAKER_00:Right. So let's talk a little bit about um Spurs game. First question. Um how do you feel about what do you feel about this with Spurs? I mean, I I've watched a few Spurs games, I'm sure you've you've seen some of the two. I think Thomas Franks are covered a rate very highly. Um, but they had a bit of a wobbling European week. You know, their league results have been a little bit hit or miss. What's your kind of impression on them so far this season?
SPEAKER_02:I think they're a team that has gonna try a transition. Um, you know, they had a very disappointing uh season in one in one sense last season domestically. Um and Thomas Frank's a much more I think anyone to be fair is more pragmatic than um than Poster Codum. Uh, but he's much more about organization uh first, and then you know, he lets his team you know play you know nice flowing football. Um so I I mean the Spurs are a good team. I think that you don't really know what you're gonna get. Uh you know, you could get a team that's you know in their first game of the season, I think, if I remember correctly, you know, they they did very well. Um, but then they you know have disappointing results as well. So um if I were to say like how I think we'll do, I think we're gonna draw um because I can't really pin down whether the Spurs that are capable of beating us are gonna turn up or whether it's gonna be the team that Everton are capable of turning up and and beating Spurs. Um so I'm happy with the draw that keeps us keep keeps us ticking over, and um, you know, Spurs are a good team. And like I said, I I too rate Thomas Frank very, very highly. And uh, you know, he's had he's had a good few he's he's uh I suppose one aspect of it is that they don't have the biggest squad in the world, and they've got a number of injuries to key players, which means that a lot of their players uh you know have to play in Europe at the same time, uh you know, in Europe at the same time, um, as well. So there's that aspect to it as as well, where you know you might be playing some tied players too.
SPEAKER_00:So just going through their results so far this season. So they started off, they beat Burnley 3-0, they then beat Man City, but that's when me and you would have beaten Man City that week at the start of the season. Um, they then lost to Bournemouth, beat West Ham. Again, we would beat West Ham, drew with Brighton, drew with Wolves, beat Leeds, lost to Villa, uh, and then you know, uh Monaco, they drew 2-0-0 with Monaco in the week, um in the Europa League. So it that really is a mixed back. I mean, if you look at like, you know, I mean, Villa are actually on a bit of a run, so they didn't uh you know play them, but they maybe played them at the wrong time. But the only impressive win there I would call out really is Man City, which is in the second game of the season. Since then, you know, yes, they've beaten Leeds, yes, they've beaten um West Ham, but they failed to beat Wolves, who I mean everyone's beating, and they they they failed to beat Brighton, who are a good team, but you know, um you would maybe have expected more from that. So it is an interesting mixed bag. I wonder to what extent you know the the conversation around football is funny. What always there's always one or two teams are in the spotlight. Forest have have been West Ham definitely are um Man United suck up a lot of oxygen in that, you know, Man United are only uh, what is it, three points behind Liverpool? But if you look at the story of the two points, yeah, if you look at the story of their seasons, it's like told completely differently. I I'm not sure Spurs are that good. And uh I I wonder if they hadn't beaten Man City in the second week, whether people would be having a different kind of conversation about them. So I think we might do a bit better than a draw in this one. I think we might um I think we might surprise some people.
SPEAKER_02:I think, yeah, I think you're uh I think the manager and has an awful quite an awful lot to do with like how the media perceive someone and how the how much he gets talked about.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you know, like I think Poster Koglu he he doesn't do himself he doesn't do himself any favours because he's quite short and brash and yeah, I mean he'd start a fight in an empty room, or definitely start a fight in a room with a journalist in it and nothing else.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly. Whereas Thomas Frank is a very objectively a very amenable person. Um and the the the and so there's probably that aspect of it as well. And you know, like you said, there are clubs that are in more that are in worse situations than uh than Tottenham. And also Tottenham are gonna be judged not necessarily really on the Europa League because that's a you know a continental thing, um, but they're gonna be judged on their domestic form, which you know, if they had if they if they were to be any worse, they would literally get relegated. Um so uh as posed to that aspect to it too.
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah, I mean, really, I mean, there's there's many versions of last season where both Tottenham and Man United get relegated. I mean, they benefited from having to state the belief nobody's three worst teams, but you know, teams that were very, very poor last year, which obviously we haven't got this year. Um we're gonna uh it's alright. I what your score predictions are your predictions are draw. Do you have a specific score prediction? I think it'll be a nil-nil or will there be some action?
SPEAKER_03:Uh I'll go with one one.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. All right. I think we're gonna win. I think we're gonna win 2-0. Um should we before we wrap this up, should we talk about Liverpool a little bit? Because that's funny. Um so what what's going on there? I mean, I have a lot of views on this, but like what what what's broken and how long can we enjoy ourselves before they fix it?
SPEAKER_02:I I said this, and and I and I will blow my own trumpet with this because when the media were a lot of the media rather were saying about you know, even like the Guardian Football Weekly, for example, on like game week five, when they'd won their fifth game of the season, they said like they were it were in all serious saying uh you know, just hand Liverpool the title now. And I was like this and I was going, they haven't all been that, they haven't been that good. Have you actually paid attention to their actual results? You know, it's well known like how many times they've given up two goal leads. Now, our our our game in which they've scored at that point of the season when we uh played them in the derby, we were the only team, I think, we were the only team when they went two goals up not to equal, not to level it. Um trust us. Exactly. And we had chances, we know we had chances too in that in you know, I guess. Um, you know, I think what we're seeing with Liverpool is a uh re it is almost like a recreation of what we saw with Martinez under Moyes because in the 13-14 season when we got 72 points, the still the lot the highest number not to get Champions League football, by the way. Um we saw that Martinez built on the the the pragmatic, the more solid foundations that Moyes had, and that's in comparison to Martinez. That's not a reflection on Moyes being like a pragmatic, you know, defensive dinosaur or manager, absolutely not. We know he plays good football, but in comparison to Martinez, he definitely plays more pragmatic football than Martinez. So Martinez had this lovely hybrid where he could be he could be more like you know attack-minded and play a bit more flowing football, but but he had this basis of of um of a previous manager who built something over a long period of time uh more defensively, and I think we're seeing that with with with um with with Arnold Slot because the second half of Liverpool season wasn't all that great. I know they won the league, but it wasn't all that fantastic.
SPEAKER_00:It was in in eight of the previous 10 years with that points total, they wouldn't have won the league.
SPEAKER_01:Really? There you go.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so yeah, so it was it was a low now. Look, they were the best team in the Premier League, and you've only got to beat the you've you've got to be the that's how you win the league, right? So I don't want to sound completely bitter about it. But yeah, in eight of the previous 10 years, that one year they wouldn't have finished in the Champions League spots with that points total, but almost every year you'd have finished second or third. Yeah, so you know, they they were fortunate, and they were fortunate because you know, Man United obviously have just disappeared as a force. Chelsea were in the post-potter thing, Arsenal chipped the bed, uh, and Man City have just, I mean, I don't know what you know what what's happened to Man City maybe back on the rails now, but they really were skiing down the back of the footballing mountain for a while there, you know, and really were not the the team that they should have been. So yeah, the the put their points total was was not you would not normally win the league with that points total. Normally we would be comfortably in the Champions League and someone else would win the league.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I think um, but I think that's what we've that that's what we're seeing with Liverpool. I think that uh they they've strengthened and they've spent like 400 million, and that's obviously caveated by the fact that they you know they basically spent practic they spent basically just nothing um in the previous summer transfer window. Um so they've they've splurged on you know attacking talent, but the thing, even their defensive um aspects of their improvement, you know, like Frimpong and Kirkes, they've not been very good at all. And um, you know, their centre back partnership, even Van Dyke looks pretty, uh, you know, looks pretty shaky. And it looks like teams have sort of worked them out of how to of how to um attack them uh because they just look they look really vulnerable from uh you know longer passes and longer balls over the top. Um so I they had a really good result away away in Germany, but that should never be a measure because you know I mean Spurs being the most obvious example of that, where you know a team can do really well in Europe and terribly domestically. Um, you know, so it should be never an indication of how they should be doing domestically to look at their European form. Um, but yeah, I'd be I'd be pretty I'd be pretty worried. I mean, especially because the amount of the amount of money that they've spent and the keep and the players that just aren't you know aren't performing, you know, Florian Wirts, for example, you know, 150 million or whatever he costs has not settled in very well. He's I mean he's he's he's created a lot of chances, um, you know, so he's doing his bit, but those chances are obviously not being taken. And they have this really interesting problem now where they've sort of got two like absolutely world-class forwards competing for the same position. And you don't have that, like City don't like no no other lead, no other team has two world-class players competing for the same striking position. You have one, and then you have a very good deputy. That's generally how it works. But they've got Ekatique and Isak who are both absolutely outstanding players, and I mean, judging by what Ekatike's taking like the Premier League like duck to water, scored what was it, four goals in this before Isak arrived, and then um yeah, Isak come uh comes along and looks absolute, absolutely terrible. I mean, he's been really he's been really he's been really poor. Apparently he's like the game, but you know, completely anonymous.
SPEAKER_00:You do wonder what they were thinking. I mean, for all the pain and the money and the effort to get Alexander Isaac in to solve a problem they absolutely didn't have.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:When the problem they absolutely do have, which is they only have two good centre backs. And so they leave the gay thing to the last day. Yeah. Because they needed they needed to give Crystal Palace an offer that was so good and so early that they could say yes and and backfill, which they would have been inclined to do, you know, gay had a year left in his contract. So it it's a strange decision. I I I've been kind of bearish on um what's his name, Van Dyke for some time. And I've been like N of one, but like the there were times last year where he was well off, you know, well off. And because they won the league, it's it sounds like a silly thing to say, but because they won the league, all is forgiven, you know. But there were times last year where he got murdered, and you know, against uh Man United, he was all over the place and started to do something. I I the thing I enjoyed the most was him yelling at everybody. I mean, there's one point where he cleared it into a mate's face who was stood two weeks, two feet away, and he was yelling at him. Yeah, he's like, What'd you you kicked it in his head? Like, you know, and that's great because that's like ah, that there's tension there, you know, that's fantastic. Like that, that that's what we we love to see. So I uh, you know, I I I obviously Liverpool are gonna win games, they're not gonna carry on losing them. We've got very, very good players, but the etique et etiquette eyes, you know, thing is like gonna be very it's gonna be very interesting how that resolves because you're just not gonna have either one of those players being on mostly on the bench is not acceptable to our to them. So what are you gonna do? You know, um, so yeah, it's gonna be, I think it's gonna be fun. And I suspect they'll still finish the Champions League, but I I would be stunned if they won the league. I just I just think they don't really have a way of playing that is gonna be good enough. And I think Arsenal and Chelsea are both considerably better than them now this year.
SPEAKER_02:Well, yeah, I think City as well. You know, City have been over the past few weeks much better.
SPEAKER_00:Um yeah, and Haaland is like back to it. And you get you get you get away with a lot if you've got uh uh you know, if you've got Erling Harland. I know he said Alfinger Harland up front, he was never any good up front. Uh if you've got Erling Haaland up front, you can get away with an awful lot.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, totally. Yeah, uh the the issue Liverpool have got, of course, is that you know they won the league with that you know that points total, which was you know much much lower uh than than than than usual. Um so that automatically becomes the minimum expectation that they win either that or the Champions League, especially after the amount of money that they've spent in the last um you know, however, however many uh in the last summer rather, you know, 400 million on their strikers. I think people expect them to do a lot better. And you know, I was very very sort of gleefully sitting there going, you know, the the wheels are gonna come off here soon with the number of games that they number of times that they're going to these early leads and then just capitulating. You know, they're not they they're gonna do that against some better teams and it's not gonna work. And you know, look at Palace, you know, who are one of the better teams in the league at the minute, uh, and you know, they they were better than them all over the park, which started off that um you know, started off this this poor run that they've had.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, they really were. So the you know that the this is I was actually um I was actually slightly wrong about the the Liverpool thing. I've just uh thanks Chat GPT, I've actually got the the um the the the stats here. So Liverpool won the league last year with 84 points. Previous numbers of point previous points totals to win the league going back 10 years. Uh 91 Man City, 89 Man City, 93 Man City, 86 Man City, 99 Liverpool, which is in 2019, 2020, the COVID season when they won it. So they got 15 more points the last time they won it. Uh 98, 100 man city, Chelsea 93. And then you've got to go back 25, 2015, 2016, when it was won with 81 points, uh, and uh Pop Quiz, who won it that year with 81 points? What was the season? Sorry. 2015-2016.
SPEAKER_03:Oh it's Leicester.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, Leicester. So I mean that was anomalous in lots of ways that Leicester got, you know, normally uh, you know, 81 wouldn't get you anywhere near. So um it there's only a couple of times it's dropped below 90 points, which is obviously two more wins. So basically, like if Liverpool were exactly as good this year as they were last year, they'll probably finish second or third, and I think they're worse.
SPEAKER_02:I agree. Yeah. And it'll be what a time to be alive. Yeah, I called it. I said uh on our I said on our on our group, I I I don't think that slot will last the season, or at the very least, he will be under a lot of pressure. Because I I I think the Liverpool hierarchy they've never they would never be in that position, they've not been in that position where they have to make a decision like that. And I I think they will back him, but I don't I think they want to be seen as like you know backing the manager but whether that'll be the right thing to actually do or not. I think it will be. I think he'll be I think they're gonna really struggle and there will be calls for him to go. Um and it's a genuine possibility that he will he will get sacked before the end of the season.
SPEAKER_00:Football. It's never boring, is it? No. Um, all right, we'll wrap it up. So uh come on, you blues for Sunday, tomorrow, probably by the time you're listening to this. Um, we'll be back after the Spurs game uh to chat about that, hopefully talking about another win. Um follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts, that's where we are. Uh, and tell a blue supportive mate. Oh, and uh a shout out to my mate Nick Streeter, who I know always listens. And Nick works for an amazing charity called Special Effect. So Google them. Uh they do amazing work with helping uh disabled kids and adults uh live uh fantastic, more fulfilling lives. So check them out. And Nick, thanks as ever for your support and for being a brilliant Evertonian. Um, all right, stay well. Come on, you blues. We'll see you soon.