Blues Brothers Everton Podcast
Blues Brothers Everton Podcast
Whats working, and what isn't
We're a few games into the season now and we've seen the good and the bad of this Everton team. In this pod we look at what is working, how Everton have struggled recently, and look ahead to Sunday's game against Crystal Palace.
Welcome to episode 87 of the Blues Brothers Everton podcast. Um it's Ben in the captain's chair today. Austin may be joining us at some point. He said he was on a train, so we'll see how that goes. But there are the three of us are here, so uh you've got me, Ben, and uh Adam and Andrew with you. Uh so Adam, how are you?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I'm good, thank you. Um yesterday I uh showed out a comfortably four-figure sum on uh getting a root canal done. And um and my car being serviced. So uh to spend that much money on something like painful and painful is painful.
SPEAKER_01:It is painful. I will also reveal I'm not sure the root canal has changed Adam's habits hugely because literally, as I started saying welcome to the uh episode 87, Adam went on mute in order to open a can of coke.
SPEAKER_02:So it's zero sugar. I don't drink full sugar coke. Never have.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I mean, is that healthy? You might as well it sound like you might as well drink full sugar coke in every root canal anyway. You're getting all the punishment none of the fun.
SPEAKER_02:Um Yeah, but apart from that, I'm good. You know, I'm a I'm a I'm a generally positive, generally positive person, even though I've just had a dentist, you know, dig out dig out my tooth for an hour.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, Adam called Adam did call me yesterday because they were trying to find the stones at at um the Hill Dickinson Stadium. And I said to him, How are you? And he said, Oh, I'm great, I'm good. Spent a load of money on my car and have a root canal. And I'm like, that doesn't sound like doesn't sound great. But as Adam said, enormously positive about you know cars, dental care, and Everton, um, as we will discover as we talk about this. Andy, how are you?
SPEAKER_00:I'm good, thank you. Yes, and my definition of good is probably higher than Adam's definition good, because I'm currently halfway through a caravanning holiday in the Netherlands, which is uh very nice indeed. We've been to uh three theme parks, two of which have been with the European Coaster Club and had a couple more days sort of satcheling around the caravan. I'm gonna do a bit more of that tomorrow.
SPEAKER_01:Uh uh a caravan trip round the Netherlands seems like the sort of activity specifically designed to annoy Jeremy Clarkson.
SPEAKER_04:Like that's it, very niche.
SPEAKER_00:And if it annoys Jeremy Clarkson, then as far as I'm concerned, all the more reason to do it. Absolutely. Good, good stuff. Um, have the roller coasters been good? They have, yes. I mean, the first two parks, Wally Bee Holland and Wildlands, were um a European coaster club trip that I planned, organised, and ran, which was uh very good. Two good days were had, lots of good feedback. And then today, Marie, my wife, and I have been to Efteling, which is just a lovely place, one of the best theme parks in the world. Just good rides, good coasters, good food, just everything's just absolutely top class about it.
SPEAKER_01:Great. Speaking of things that are absolutely top class, we've all now been to uh the Hill Bickinson Stadium. Um we are recording this on uh the 30th of September. So we played West Ham yesterday. Um and we haven't done a pod since basically uh I think after the Leeds game. So we've got a couple of things to catch up on. So, but rather than doing a deep dive into every individual game, we we have fortunately a between us can cover each of them. Um so Brighton was the first one um that we had after the game, which we which we won, which was our first first home victory at uh at the Hill Dickinson Stadium. Um and I'm gonna pass that to Andy. Impressions of the stadium. You know, we don't need to get into the game too much because we're gonna do like uh chat about how we're playing, but tell us about your experience at the first proper home game at the Hill Dickinson Stadium.
SPEAKER_00:Well, the stadium is is out of this world, it really is. I deliberately didn't look too much into what the inside would look like prior to my first visit because I wanted to see it fresh with my own eyes, and the first impression of walking up the stairs and seeing the seeing the stadium inside, it's absolutely fantastic. And our seats are uh bang on the halfway line. I mean, dad wanted a seat on the halfway line. I think if you carried on painting the halfway line up the stamp, it would bisect his seat. It can't be any more in the middle. Um, so the view is is absolutely spectacular. Um, you know, the area around the stadium is is great, the landscaping where it is by the obviously by the water and the the dock on the on the south side is is is good as as a stadium. It's it's just absolutely world class. And of course the experience there is only going to get better as we all get used to our um routines and meeting people and all that sort of thing. Um the only issue that dad and I had was um that the food service um times in the club view area were extremely slow, but I gather since then that um they've they've got a lot better. So that's obviously just teething issues, which which is to be expected with a a new infrastructure project of um of this scale.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so when I I was I was at the Villa game, which I think is the next one that we're gonna talk about, and they they it ironed out basically those those teething issues, uh as far as I could tell, because I think the story from the first game was it was taking like 35 minutes or more to get from the back of the line to the front to get your food, which isn't obviously the great uh the best sort of pre-or match experience. When we were there, um dad and I waited for about 15 minutes, and once we'd uh established the correct way of doing the transaction, because we tried to do it all together, but they can only do one thing at a time, voucher at a time, so that will hock the whole thing. But as you say, it's all the sort of teething process that will um that will iron itself out. But yeah, I'm I you know same as you, Andy, I was sort of blown away by um by the by the the stadium and the scale and the seats incredible. And I think like um as with all of these things, I think if you speak to anyone who's sort of moved into a new stadium whose team has moved into a new stadium, there's always that transition period where people are kind of working out like where do we meet beforehand and which are the singing areas and which is like the and I think the club have actually done a really good job in trying to like set that up from the beginning. I was talking to a mate who's a um who's a um West Ham fan, and he was saying that one of the problems that they have with that that um stadium amongst m others is that the club didn't really take the atmosphere from the park and go like, hey, if you're in this bit, like this end where all the singers go, where all the the the you know the real boisterous crowd is like the equivalent of our glider street, this is where we want you to sit in the new stadium. So you ended up with all the people who were like used to being the people who would get the chance starts and stuff. They were all just sort of disparately spread around. Whereas it kind of feels like the the the the is it which stand is it that's super steep behind the goal? I should know this. But the it feels like the club of trying to like get people to go there as the place. It's the south stand, I believe. Thanks very much. Yeah, it's the right so yeah, it was yeah, it was um, you know, as you say, incredible, incredible seats, incredible experience, you know. Um we'll come on to like how we're playing, but we should have won the villa game, and I think um that's a fairly common theme that was played out again last night. Um, for which I'll hand over to Adam to talk about uh his experience at the Hill Dickinson Stadium, and then we can get into like talking about the games.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I like what uh Andrew and and yourself are saying it's just absolutely magnificent. Um, from everything from the just the the atmosphere that has obviously been created through the architecture, you know, the steepness being the legal limit um and you know the the way the roof's designed to hold in the noise. One of the most striking things was the chat, you know, they really notice the difference in the acoustics uh of the chanting um from both sets of fans, you know, it carries a lot more. Um and I think once you know when our when our results improve and we sort of get over this this hangover of worrying about relegation or that sort of stuff, I think once uh the fans settle down that we'll really start to see that come into the in into the fold. Um I would uh I was gonna I was I was wondering if Andrew finished that sentence when he said uh the area around the ground is lovely, and then obviously I realised he was talking about inside the perimeter of the of the dock walls, uh because the outside uh is looks like about five days into an apocalypse. Um which will which will get obviously regenerated, and you're already seeing like bars of some bars popping up and stuff. Um but yeah, it's a it's an am it it is absolutely um magnificent in in in every way, and you know it's um it was br it was just amazing to be there. I got that you know, like almost like little kid moment when you walk out for the first time and you just see that, and like Andrew said, you know, we are absolutely bang on the halfway line. Um so it's a fantastic seat, fantastic stadium, and it was a brilliant experience, albeit the result was a bit disappointing.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and and I always um I know the food complaints have been like a common thing, not just on you know amongst people we know, but also in on the other Everton podcasts. And I do sort of feel we have to like we have to, you know, check ourselves a little bit because it's like, oh, you mean the the the free food you get in your in your nice seats isn't delivered fast enough. Sorry, do your diamond shoes not fit and there's too many 20 20 pound notes in your wallet, how terrible for you. Um but I uh on the on that I think like the you're right about the regeneration of the area. I think there's always already you know plans to have like hotels and stuff, and you could easily actually foresee. I don't think we would move from Finch Farm because a Finch Farm is obviously still very new, but I think you could totally see it becoming more like a do you know have you guys been to the Etihad? Um where it's like a it's like a campus. So there's loads of stuff there, so like it's all by and you could sort of see how Everton ext, and you would hope that's the plan that they kind of extend outwards and have more, whether it's corporate facilities or some training facilities or youth facilities or community facilities, and you just sort of take over that area because you're Adam's right, there's like there's nothing around that. Uh interesting to Everton fans, maybe probably quite boring from anyone else. Adam, what was your transport weigh-in yesterday? What route did you take? How did you do it?
SPEAKER_02:We drove uh from uh Mansfield, uh, and yeah, it was fine. Took about like like two, three quarter hours, it was fine. And then we parked off station road and walked uh for about half an hour. So it's only I mean we're obviously we're we're used to walking for like you know 20 minutes and uh um I did that wanky thing where you put on your Strava uh there and back.
SPEAKER_01:And is you that is wanky. Strava is for runs, not for walks.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I I put it as a walk and I didn't put it as a hike, it could have been worse. Um so and it's uh and if anyone's boring and and and wants to know, it is about 7,800 steps and uh 2.6 miles there and back. There you go.
SPEAKER_01:Because interesting things I got there, I got there early because I was driving up from basically Bristol. Um, so I'd driven up early and I'd parked the car at our Uncle Phil's house. Hello, Uncle Phil. I know you're listening to the podcast. Thank you again for letting me park the car at your house. Um so we went in early to meet Dad, and we thought we met Dad at Lime Street, so we thought, oh well, let's try sand hills, like let's do that route in, see how that is. And actually, on the way in, dead quick, not a problem at all. And also dad and Phil get to travel free on the train. So um that was a nice that was a nice bonus. Going into Sandhill is great, but we were going in at like 11:30 midday for a three o'clock kickoff because we wanted to like walk around the ground and explore and stuff. That will be I I I've not seen any pictures of it after the game, but I fully expect that would be an absolute disaster because the capacity of that station is nowhere near big enough to cope with the number of people who are going to be doing it. And even there, actually, when you get off at sandhills, you're still like 15 minutes walk from the stadium. It's not like it's not like you get out and it's there, it's like, oh, it's there, but I'm still I still have to walk for a fair fair fair amount of time. So the transport is the one thing that is like they need to try and work out.
SPEAKER_00:Um I imagine anybody who who is fully able bodied and able to walk is very possibly gonna walk to Hill Dickinson from Liverpool City Centre, because by the time you've walked 50 minutes to Sandhill, so you can be more than halfway back towards Liverpool 1, for example. Yeah, and that's after the station at James Street.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and that's after the game, actually. That's what Dad did. Um went back, obviously, we failed to get the car, and then um dad was gonna walk to to like back to Line Street to get Kane to see how long it would take him, which is fine if it's not pissing down with rain or freaking cold. Yeah, um, is the other problem, is the other challenge there. But anyway, enough enough transport chat. But I know it's been a big thing for Evertonians um about like how we get in and around the stadium and the that sort of stuff. But so in summary, stadium's great, um, transport needs some work, food is getting better, uh, but we're very, very grateful and very, very lucky to you know have this world-class arena that you know we've been waiting for uh a long time for. Let's talk about the actual football. And Adam, I'm gonna come to you first because you were at the game last night, so sort of freshest in the memory. How do you think so we're doing so far this season? You can talk about last night specifically, but give us your assessment of where we are from on on the pitch perspective.
SPEAKER_02:I always put it in the context of being in the last three years when you go there and don't necessarily expect to A, see good football and B have any uh chance, I wouldn't say real chance of winning, but like you're not gonna go into games where you expect to win, like you know, like we were last night, you know. I was going to last yesterday's game, going thinking I feel really positive about this game. So that sort of mindset has been important. Um because um so put it taking it in that context, you know, things are a lot better and rosier than they have than they have been. And since um this season we've got a respect a respectable eight points from um eight points from six games, um which gives you uh what's that it gives you 40, you know, if we extrapolate it, just over just shy of north just north of 50 points uh by the season's end.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you to the mountain teacher for doing for doing the work there for us.
SPEAKER_02:I've done more. I've I've done more than that. I was gonna say and and uh looking at Moyes in general, um looking at Moyes in general, we've we've taken uh from the from the 25 Premier League games that he's done, we've taken 38 points, which works out about 1.57 a season. I used calculator for that one. Um but that puts us uh in the last few seasons, um that puts um uh ninth. Last season, it puts us ninth the season before, I believe, if my memory serves correctly. Yeah, and it puts us ninth in the season before that. So basically, you're coming just inside the top half with how Moyes has done since he came in in January. And just looking at this this in particular, you know, we had this season in particular, we had really good result uh against Brighton, our first home game. Brighton are a a good a good side, and 2-0 probably flattered us in that game. Um, we played much better against the Villa and didn't quite get the result that we probably deserved in that. Um deservedly beat Wolves. Uh, that was probably our best performance of the season overall in the league. And then uh, you know, the wind's been taken out of our sails quite a bit, I would say, with the League Cup. Um, you know, Orank Peter uh said saw him at the game last night, and he you know he said, you know, we're not we're not one of the top teams, we're never gonna compete for the for the league anytime soon, we're not gonna compete for Europe anytime soon, really. So you're looking at the league and the league cup and the FA Cup as being two things that you can look at getting a chance of a trophy, and Moy's just completely um you completely fucked that fuck that up completely with uh with his with his selection. So that's sort of a little bit.
SPEAKER_01:I like how you pause to try and find a better word and just went with fucks that up.
SPEAKER_02:That is that is amazing inference. That's exactly what I did. Yeah. Um I can tell.
SPEAKER_01:You can tell if you listen to that, you can hear the moment where Adam pauses go, how do I express this eloquently? I'm not going to, you fucked it up.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um, so that that was disappointing. And then, you know, last night wasn't the result that we uh that we wanted. So but you can look you can look at the Villa game and the Brighton result, and then you can say, you know, we should we possibly should be doing better in those last two games that we've had, but you know, we're probably reverting to our mean um around about now, to be fair. You were six Premier League games in, two cup games in. Um, so around about where we are is probably where I would expect us to be if I was being completely fair and honest. You know, we're not going to be we can't be expecting to go into games like West Ham and expect to win, um, you know, like I said at the start, in fairness.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, Andy, what what do you think about where we are? I think you've got to look at where we are at the start of this season in context um and comparison to the previous seasons, because this season obviously got off to a really good start, Brighton in the league, Wolves in the league, and then it's hit the skids a little bit um more recently, uh most notably with the League Cup loss to Wolves, which has already been very eloquently alluded to by Adam. Um but you've got to compare it to the the previous seasons. I mean, I I don't know what points total we had after six games last season, of course or the seasons two or three years ago, but it probably wasn't eight, and the performances almost certain what certainly weren't as good generally good as what they have been. So it's it's still looking very positive. If you're looking for sort of mark out of ten figure so far this season, I'd give us six because we're showing lots of creativity looking going forward. Um, but there's still elements of the squad that you know could need augmentation, but we've spoken about that on previous pods. And it's also important to remember that there's not I've been so much churn in the squad over the summer, nine new players have come in, several important players have have left. So it's still gonna take, I think, a little bit of time to integrate people into the squad, get everybody playing successfully together. And I think there's an element of as well of Moyes still looking at that and still looking at who can who can fit where. Um now can can Moyes do a bit better? Yes, of course he can. I think Tyler Dibling should have come on um uh uh earlier than what he has done as substitute in a couple of games, for example, because did he get about five minutes at the end of the derby or seven minutes, something like that? That's not enough time in that sort of game to to see um see what you can do. So, but overall it's it's it's I I'm still very much a glass half full uh Evertonian because I could I look at the wider picture and see that the start of this season compared to the start of previous season, it's like night and day. You go to the game now, you look forward to it, regardless of who we're playing. We've got the forward players to cause any team problems. So you're going into games with uh a level of confidence that's greater than what you've seen in previous years, and for me, that can only improve going forward.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and I Andy, I looked it up while you were talking because I was curious myself. So at this point last season, 24-25, six games, we had four points. But important to clarify that we didn't win our first game until game week six when we beat Crystal Palace at home. So actually, we were played before that we were played five one point, and then played six four points. So we were 16th in the table. So and I think this is I think you both you both said it is like the context is important. And I was I was having a friendly debate with some of the DC Toffeys over WhatsApp after the game yesterday, where there was some disappointment, or like this is two points dropped, or we should be doing better than this. And I was kind of like, we are in like we've gone, we've we are in one transfer window in to a rebuild of the worst squad in the Premier League, and we sort of need to remember that. I think because of how it's almost it's almost Moise has been done by his own success, but because of how you know we did last season, and because of how good the transfer window is, there's now an expectation that we just turn up and beat West Ham. Now, West Ham are like I don't think West Ham will get relegated now with Nuno. I think that'll be a much better outfit under him. Potter obviously just didn't work for them, and I think there are lots of reasons for that. But it's you don't just turn up in the Premier League and just beat teams, right? It's it's a hard lead to play and it's a really difficult lead to get points in. But I think we also need to be realistic that like we are still a club at the very start of that rebuilding journey. So we're not like if you look at, you know, if you look at some of the teams who are further up the table than us, if you look at like Bournemouth or Brighton, is it in fact Brighton above I was in the table, so that's a terrible example. Like, but but if you look at like the Bournemouth or the palace, they're much further along in that sort of development phase. They've they've got managers who have been there longer, they've invested over time. They've you know, I I think we need to be cognizant that anything above are we gonna be in a relegation scrap is an improvement hugely on the last three, four seasons. So do I think we're gonna be a relegation scrap this season? No. I do I think we're gonna finish in the top six, no. I think we're probably gonna comfortably finish somewhere in the 9 to 13 range, and it we'll have a very boring May because it will be kind of obvious that's what's gonna happen. But I will take a boring May than chewing my fingernails while we play Bournemouth, needing to win on the final day to stay in the division. Thanks very much. And that's like step one on the journey. So I think I was at the villa game, and like we, you know, you play that game a hundred times, you probably win 75 of them. Martinez made several top-class saves that only he he makes. And we, I mean, I was texting a villa mate of mine, and the way he described it was that um we'd battered them nil-nil, and that's like the perfect way of putting it. Like, you we absolutely we played them off the park, they didn't create anything, we we created chances, we just couldn't score. And that's like and that and we can come on to this and we can talk about the sort of the tactics and the setup and what we're struggling with at the minute. And I think like last night's the same, we got a goal from our best striker, Michael Keane, um, and then we uh sort of struggled to get the second goal. And I think that and that always gonna leave you open to Premier League teams who have good players going down the other end and scoring one. I just think like we have to be more relaxed about the fact that we're just not gonna we're not gonna turn up and beat everyone who's in a relegation candidate because we're also we're only just above that as a level, and I think maybe the start of a season has set our expectations a little bit too high. Um, but let's talk let's talk the the the sort of tactics because I was reflecting on this after the discussion we had over WhatsApp last night about like Beto and Barry, and it was something that Moyes said in his postmatch actually that I watched on NBC earlier that struck me because everyone's talking about we need a striker, desperately need a striker, and I don't disagree with that. I think like we are missing someone who can knit that play together, but I don't think we created a clear-cut chance last night that that better or Barry then missed, right? And Adam, you are shaking your head vociferously in agreement, ironically, I think. But so I'm gonna come to you because you were there, but like it's not like we're creating chance after chance after chance, and we've got these strikers who were just missing all the time. It's like we're playing lots of intricate football, but we're not actually really creating anything, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I agree. Um, I was shaking my head in in agreement, um, which is a strange thing to do, but yeah, certainly. Um the game against um the game we played last in the premier in the in the in the Premier League, I think it was uh it was Villa, and it was described on BBC Sport as like you know, better better Mr. Sitter, and uh and Steve Warnock said like he know you know he's got he's got to he's he's absolutely got to score then he he and I I watched it like on my I watched it after the game because I've missed that, and it was not like it was described at all. It was like behind it was like sort of behind him, and the thing with Beto in particular is his movement is absolutely fantastic. His is like he will get in behind, he plays on the last man, yes, he gets offside, but that's that's just the law of averages with the way that he plays. His movement is amazing, and his finishing is when he doesn't really have to think about it, his finishing is like really good. The issue is that when he does get those when he does get those chances, he doesn't necessarily always take them and he's not clinical enough. But more worryingly, as we saw last night, it's the it's his ability to link up that play because the tactic that we saw last that I saw last night mainly was where I would say the main objective was to basically get the ball to Grealish as much as possible and then get players in and around him, whether it's Mikalenko making an outside uh run or Jewsbury Hall getting in the box in that sort of um that corner of the box so he can get get crosses in. And Grealish would never really, he never went to take his man on, really. He always waited and then waited for a run and then nicked a little pass into some space because that's the obviously the idea. And if you look at Njay as well, Njay's playing on the right, but he never actually goes towards the byline to get a cross in, he's always cutting inside, and we saw like the chance from Jewsbury Hall uh with that. So there's like that's that's the tactic is to get the ball out wide to Grealish and Njai, who can then get ball get balls in the box, but mainly get it to Jack Grealish. And Beto's really good if he's like if he get he's got a chance where a chance like against Wolves, you know, he'll get he will get into good positions because his movement's really good, and he's actually he's an intelligent footballer in that sense. The issue is when you're a bit under the kosh and or you want to play on the break, and it's it's his touch lets him down because he takes one one or two touches more than he needs to. And then Barry for me is a much more technical player from what I've seen so far, but I just think that he's struggling probably with the pace of the Premier League and getting and and he's not quite at Beto's level in terms of making those runs and getting to those positions because I can't really think off the top of my head a chance that Barry has had in any match really, whereas I can think of Beto obviously has scored a couple of goals this season and he's missed he's missed some chances. Um the chances are being the chances are being create uh being are being creative, but not in the quantity that we need them to be. And that last night's game is a really good example of that, because the only real chance that I would say that we create the two chances that spring to mind last night were the James Garner shot in the second half and the Jewsbury Hall header, and he probably should have scored. Um probably should have scored that, and I think a better header of the ball probably does. Um but yeah, I agree with you, Ben, and we're not we're not creating we didn't create an awful lot last night, and we're not creating an awful lot, like overall, I would say, to really say that our strikers are not producing what they should in that sense.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, Andy, what do you think about that, like in terms of not just the striker position, but how we're playing in general?
SPEAKER_00:You said already that uh the amount of creativity that we're currently Providing, yes, whilst it might not be exactly at the levels we'd like it to be, it's still much better than what we've observed up the last few seasons. And I think as well, if you could get the machine out of the science fiction film from the 80s called The Fly and sort of merge Beto and Barry together, you'd have the perfect player for us at the moment because if you had sort of Beto's pace and getting him behind with Barry's ability to hold the ball up with his first and and have a better first touch, you'd have the perfect striker for us at the moment. Um, but obviously they're two separate players. Um I've only seen Barry once against the Brighton in the Brighton game, and I agree with what um what's just been said. His hold-up play and link play was really good. He's still getting to terms with um just the pace and the style of of the league, but I have no doubt that that will will come in time. Um but it's I'd be more concerned if we were creating loads of chances and better and barrow were missing them. And I think at the moment, because we are light up front, it's it's the job of Moys and the other attacking players, Jewsbury Hall, Grealish, and Dar and Jai, to um provide more of a high more of the goals, the high percentage of the team's goals, in my opinion, because you you haven't got that focal point up front. We haven't got anybody who's gonna score the mythical 20 goals a season, which by the way, isn't actually a thing. You know, 20 goals a season, not a thing, hardly ever happens, but that's by the by. Um so just to s to sum up, the creativity, yeah, it it could be better, but it's still a heck of a lot better now than what it's been in previous seasons. And I've got every faith that going forward, once the team, once the team is more integrated and the players are more used to playing with each other, that more goals will come from your Grealishes and your Jewsbury Halls and Jai, and also James Garner as well, because he scored a cracking goal in the Brighton game. Um really good finish. So uh yeah, I I I've got every faith that that goals will come despite our apparent um sort of lack of a focal focal point of a striker.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so I think uh from my perspective, how we've been playing is actually much more to do with or the struggles we've been having is much more to do with um getting the ball into goal scoring positions than it has been missing chances. Because I think if you actually like watch the Villa game and the West Ham game outside of like set pieces and throw-ins and all that sort of stuff, um, and crosses, sort of general crosses into the box. I don't think we've really created like a clear cut chance in either of those games. I think the game where we did it was obviously Wolves, where we created a couple we scored and then we obviously scored three goals. But I I don't remember against Villa us having like a real like oh, should have scored that. It was all kind of shots from the edge of the box or like um you know half chances. There was a good Michael Keane header. Funnily enough, at least uh the identical to the one he actually scored against West Ham, basically, it was a Grealish cross-in and then a header, and then Martinez made a spectacular save. But I don't I don't remember yesterday or against Villa, which are the really the two games that people are frustrated about putting the League Cup aside, uh, us actually creating a bucket load of chances, and I think that's partly to do with the players still getting used to playing with each other. It is partly to do with not having a striker that can sort of knit the play together, but I think it'll be it'll be fine, they'll work it out, they know what the issue is. The the benefit is that we look really good defensively, and that will often get you through a season, um, even if you're not like firing on all cylinders at the other end of the pitch. And we're doing that still with with Brandthwaite to to come back, and um, so I think that's a really good that's a really good sign. I thought we were too open for their goal last night, Adam. I don't know where you thought obviously you were there, but it felt like we were sudden, it felt like the ball was in our their half, and then all of a sudden we were just massively outmanned at the at the back post. And it was kind of like it was like the goal you concede when you're one-nil down and you're chasing the game, and then they go up the other end and make it two-nil because you've pushed a road of men forward. It was just seemed so out of kilter with where the game was at that point. But I don't know, you were you were watching it live, so had the better, better view than the rest of us.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that that's what it seemed uh like. But to be fair to the left and west uh left West Ham, the West Ham at left back, get those words in the right order. Um Jufe, who is brilliant all game, he's a really good player. Um, and yeah, I I would have I would have loved to have signed him if Mikhailenko wasn't so good himself. Um he was really good all game, and he obviously made that fantastic run um and put in that really good cross that Michael Keane, who was absolutely our best player by some margin again um last night, uh, got away and then you know it falls to it falls to Bowen, and then you know Keane gets an unfortunate deflection on it, uh takes it past Pickford. So you you could argue that West Ham that in that sense it was lucky because I mean we I was right behind that shot and Pickford was saving that quite easily. Um that shot from Bowen and it takes that deflection and goes in. So but in the build-up to the game, I agree. You know, we it we it's it's just one of the it's one of those where one player um outruns a couple of your own players, there's a bit of an overload, but Bowen um gets into a into into a position um and he's got a lot of space, and you know, he's one of the most dangerous players in the league in that sort of situation. Um so it was right that we commit in more players forward because the West Ham were there for the taking. Um we've just come back onto your you know, talk about um our our you know missing chances and stuff. The the stats, what you're saying, Ben, do back do back that up.
SPEAKER_01:Um because we've got have you come with some more research? This is this is what you get when you have a teacher on the podcast, they do their they do their work ahead of time.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely, yeah. So we've we've scored we've scored seven goals and our expect and our expected goals is eight point zero four. Um and then if you look at how that compares the difference between our our actual goals and expected goals is 1.04. Um, and that's uh it's not the highest in the league, just a very quick scan. It's about the sixth or seventh highest uh in the league. So it means less at this point in the season. We've only played six games. You know, XG is a much better metric when you get you know 15, 20 games into a season. Um but it bet but what but it but it does back up um provisionally what you were saying, Ben, about us not we're not we're not creating an awful, we're not creating an awful lot. We haven't got we're not our strikers and our players are not missing sitters um to uh to put us in the position that we are. Um but that's to be expected, you know. We've had an awful lot of we'd have we've had an awful lot of uh of change in in in uh uh up top. You know, we've got we've got two new starting players in Dewsbury Hall and Grealish, and then you've got Beto, who is, you know, as we've discussed, not the striker that we need long term. You've got Barry who is brand new to the league. So, and you've got Njai, who's not playing in his best position. So in that sense, you know, it's are you going to be creating masses and masses of chances? No. Can we expect to be creating masses and masses of chances when we have such an overhaul of that? And also we come off the back of the we we come off the back of the number of seasons that we've had where we're fighting relegation and we're now starting to look better. We're probably doing about as well in chance creation as we can. And but like you said, Ben, our our defensive solidity has continued. You know, we've conceded um we've conceded six goals in those six games, which is amongst the best in the league. So um that sort of thing has continued, and and I said I've ref referenced it before, but huge shout out to Michael Keene, who has absolutely been absolutely amazing. And I I I hold my hands up to say, you know, I I wrote him off a couple of seasons ago um as being somewhat a bit of a liability because of lapses in concentration, but he was absolutely amazing last night, you know, so composed on the ball, positionally fantastic. Um, you know, he got his head on that, um, he got his head on that cross, that albeit they scored from, but without that, if my memory serves me correctly, like the West Ham striker's just ready to hit that, knock that in at the far post. Yeah um and he brings an awful lot, he brings um you know the passing range as well. Him and Tarkovsky have got a good passing range on on them as well. So um from a from a creative output, you know, he brings a lot. And I said this to Dad last night, you know, Branthwaite's an absolutely brilliant player, but I don't see any reason why you would bring him back in um when Michael Keane is playing so well. And why would you want to disrupt a defensive partnership that's doing so well?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think what it gives you, it gives you the ability to take it slow with Branthwaite and actually get him back because this isn't the first kind of hamstring injuries he's had. So it gives you the freedom to go, hey, do you know what take let's take the extra week, the extra 10 days to really get you up to speed. Because you're right, Adam, I think Keene's been Keane's been uh one of our best players this this season so far. And I think you know, we can all hold our, I think collectively all probably need to hold our hands up that he wasn't necessarily the one that we when we were talking about out of contract players, I think uh in one of the podcasts last at back end of last season, I think we all kind of said, well, you know, Keane, yeah, probably let him go, but you know, fair play to Moyes, he he kept him round and uh you know, and kept him round as like your fourth choice centre back, realistically, because Jake O'Brien's probably ahead of him in terms of the centre back um the centre back options if if we had someone to play it right back. But you know, Keane has been great, and uh as we've seen chips in with chips in with goals and was was composed and with good. And you know, the the bow and goal is like that's just really unlucky because he's just trying to do his job, and there's another world where he gets enough on that where he just lets it round the post and everyone's going, Oh, what a great block, Michael Keene. And it's like it is one of those things defenders, defenders who I always Richard Dunn, I think was he might still be the record holder for like most own goals conceded um in the Premier League. And it felt like he scored like five or six a season, and it was just because he was so often throwing himself at things to try and get blocks and stuff that he would just be it wasn't he was bad, a bad footballer, it was just he would throw himself at stuff and stuff would ping off him going the net. And I think that was like Keen last night. As you say, I think I think Pickford comfortably save that if Keene just gets out of the way, but that's not the defender's mentality, right? It's like um the other thing that I uh we want to get onto panelists before we wrap up, but um Adam, you want to talk about refereeing, and then I want to talk about refereeing as well in another uh from another thing last night because I think we should have had a penalty if they're applying the handball law correctly. But um, Adam, talk about Kieran Jewsbury Hall's yellow card.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I I was um I was apoplectic at the at the ground. I couldn't believe it. And I've seen it back on replays, and I was absolutely right, as were you know 48,000 other Evertonians who couldn't believe that it was uh uh a yellow card. It's like he he gave that purely because the guy got hurt, and it's like, where the fuck is he meant to put his foot? He won the ball and he just then happens to stand on his foot as the guy plants it. It's like he can't do anything about it, and no wonder he was so he was so enraged by it, and now he serves a ban off uh you know, because he got a yellow card in this game, and um obviously he got a yellow card in the in the in the in the derby um for you know taking free kicks too easily, which apparently he would have been warned about, which is which I mean I've never even seen that before, where you know you could persistently taking free kicks too quickly means you get a yellow card. I mean, what sort of nonsense is that?
SPEAKER_01:Uh on that one, I'm not saying I agree with it, but d disobeying the instructions of the referee can is is one of the is one of the things that can be classed as unsporting behavior, right? It's like consistently taking a throw-in from the wrong place or like it's it it's it all consistently, you know, it's one of those amorphous things. It's not written in the rules like if you take too many quick free kicks, but disobeying the instructions of the referee could be viewed as a form of dissent, could be viewed as unsporting behavior. So you could put it down, uh it shouldn't be AL card, it's just bad, it's terrible refereeing like player management to do that because what that means is that Darren England hasn't communicated clearly enough with kid with Jewsbury Hall to say, hey, you don't take it quickly, you're not having a quick one here. He's obviously left it in Jewsbury Hall's mind that he thinks he can take it quickly because he does. And so that's a failure. Like for me, that is the sort of yellow card where I'm a referee's assessor, I'm watching that game, I'm going, that's a yellow card because you failed, right? That's not the player's fault. If he didn't know what he was expected to do, you need that's a failure of your communication as an official, because he obviously thought he was entitled to take it quickly, and you've come from a position that you're giving him a yellow card for taking it quickly. And it's just one of those things that just look stupid. Everyone looks like an idiot from a refereeing perspective when it comes to that, because it's like that's all you're talking about. And I thought Darren England was generally crap in that game anyway. I don't know what I don't know where you get three minutes of injury. I mean, where have you seen three minutes of injury time in a Premier League game this season in the second half? And it I literally don't think you've seen and uh you know, I don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but I'm going to. So if that game's 1-1 or Liverpool are losing 1-0, I guarantee fucking tee you they don't it isn't three minutes injury time. I guarantee you it's five, at least.
SPEAKER_02:At this point, well, there was a there were just just on that point about injury time, there was three minutes given. They had two subs and they walked off really fucking slowly, and he should have gone an extra like two minutes there, and he blew at at 93.45. So it's like at least be consistent. There was a couple of occasions when he gave uh he gave Tarkovsky a booking for a foul in the middle of the park when the guy wasn't really going anywhere, and then there were other occasions when our players were in dangerous positions and didn't, you know, didn't get booked. There was a worse decision, just on the point of referee, there was a worse decision in the uh Brentford uh United game.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, that's a shocker.
SPEAKER_02:Where they don't where they don't give denial of a go-scoring opportunity because it's deemed that he's not in control of the ball. And Alan Shearer made this, you know, I'm gonna make the exact point that Alan Shearer made and Barry Glen Denning made on the Guardian Football Weekly. He's not in control of the ball because crucially, guys, he got pulled back by the guy who's committing the foul. It's like where it's like they are so it's like they're so blinkered by interpreting the wording of the rules that they don't apply any common sense to why they why these things could not be possibly true. Yeah. And then they'll come out and say, oh, sorry, we got it wrong. It's like, well, don't get it wrong. It's really fucking simple.
SPEAKER_01:Don't get it wrong. And and this is the thing, it's like VAR was meant to eliminate that sort of stuff. If you have if you have a group of referees who look at that and determine that that is not a dog so, as you call it, um I I don't know what we're doing. Like, I at least we don't know what we're doing because and then just the handball thing very quickly. Like we have seen numerous ones this weekend, and we all know the Tarkovsky one given against us earlier in the season. There was the one in the Villa game, the Villa Fulham game, which was given and then overturned when Matti Cash is hanging his arm like behind him when he's going to block a shot and it smacks his arm and it stops it going in the goal. Well, okay, it's so Matikash can put his arms wherever he likes if he's trying to block a shot, but if James Tarkovsky keeps them by his sides, it's a penalty. Like that's that's nonsensical. And then there was the the other one, which was the the Gabrielle one in the Newcastle game, um, Newcastle Arsenal game, where he slides in for a tackle and he's got his arm up here, and yeah, it pings a little bit between the two players, but his arm's up here and it hits that, and they go, Oh, it's a deflection, so it it doesn't count. I'm like, Well, like, what rules are we applying here, guys?
SPEAKER_00:It's like it's ridiculous. Another example as well is in the Everton Brighton game, um, I think it was Jewsbury Hall who was penalised for a handball penalty as well, which which was saved. Um but again, compared to the ones that you the two examples you've just um uh given there, Ben, I I genuinely don't understand why some are given are not and and and and some aren't. I genuinely don't know. I don't see a difference between them. I don't think anybody does. And to be fair to the officials, I'm not I'm not even sure they do. It's almost as if the handball rule has come full circle and we're back now to how it used to be, where I believe it was used to be written if, in the opinion of the referee, a player handballs the ball deliberately, it's a penalty. And you obviously had loads of instances where handballs were given um one week and not given the next because you might have different officials looking at the same, um looking at very similar incidents differently. We've almost come full circle to that now because the the handball law is written in it's it's such a mess and it's so complex. I don't think anybody in the game knows exactly what is a handball and what isn't.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. In summary, no one knows what a handball is. Standard refereeing, still terrible. Breaking news um Gala Tashari just beating Liverpool in the Champions League, and Liverpool had a penalty overturned um in the 90th minute, um, or the 89th minute or something. So that was really funny. Um we've got to wrap up. Uh, we're gonna do a Palace preview in approximately three minutes, if that's if that's alright. So Palace, obviously on a stormer, um, beat Liverpool at the weekend, unbeaten in I don't know how many games. Um, so tough one. Adam, what are you going for?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, Palace, brilliant side, really like Palace. Um I I think we'll do well to get a draw out of uh out of this. I think they're a fantastically uh well-organised team. They will sit back and they will hit us on the break with their pace. Um because they've got a they they actually apply a three, uh the the sort of um the amorim formation and apply it and it actually works uh works for them. Um so yeah, I think we'll do well, we'll do well to draw. I think it'll end up um I think we'll draw one-one.
SPEAKER_00:Andy. Yeah, I'd agree with that. I mean everybody wondered how Palace would do with losing Eze to Arsenal and is it Elise that went to whereby Munich as well? Yeah. Um but they've just carried on as if you know, no nothing uh nothing nothing's changed. Really well drilled side, all know their jobs, square pegs and square holes, really good manager. Um yeah, I agree with Adam. I I'll happily take a draw now. Um and I'll go for one-one as well. I think we'll we will score though.
SPEAKER_01:I I think we'll lose two now, and I think that's okay, because I think they're a much better team than us because they're further ahead in their development than we are, and I think like we need to not not us collectively, but I think the collective Evertonian fan base needs to not lose our minds when we lose to Palace because I think we're probably going to, and I think that's probably based on where the two teams are kind of an expected result, but I don't think it is indicative of a bigger problem or the uh of anything other than they're a better team than us right now. You know, they played Liverpool off the park at the weekend, they could have won four or five-one. It was it was not it was not a contest. Um, so you know, they're playing really, really well, and I think that's that's the team that they are at the minute. Um, you know, I think we'll give them a decent game because it's quite rare, famous last words, for a Moy side to just sort of give up and and roll over. Um, but so we'll keep it competitive, but I just think on the day they'll be better than us. And I I think the combination of our struggles, goal scoring, and their very impressive defensive record will mean it will be a real challenge for us to for us to score a goal. So yeah, I'm going for a 2-0 2-0 defeat. Um and with that, we are gonna wrap this podcast up. Um thank you, uh, Andrew and Adam, for joining. Austin obviously couldn't join us at any point from whichever train he was on. So um I'm sure he will be able to join us on the next one. But um listen to us wherever you get your podcast, leaving a leave us a rating or a view, share it with an Evertonian friend, share it with uh a non-Evertonian friend, um, just not a cop-ite, because we don't want any of them around here. Um, and we will see you on the next one.