Blues Brothers Everton Podcast
Blues Brothers Everton Podcast
Return of the Moyesiah
Everton and David Moyes are back. Back to Back wins in fact, and we break down exactly what's changed, and what Evertonians can expect from the rest of the season.
Welcome to episode 82 of the Boys Brothers Everton podcast. I think I'm in the world's echo-ist room. I'll try and uh not have that throw anyone off too much. Uh, everyone's here except dad Adam. Uh, how you doing.
Speaker 2:I'm good. Thank you, yeah, um, I'm uh. Had a nice, uh nice day at work, been off ill a couple of days last week, so good to feel, uh feel better. I'm good, thanks, how are you?
Speaker 1:I'm very well, thank you, you Just telling the guys I bought a house this morning or this afternoon, so I'm sat in a very unfurnished room, which is why it sounds like a cathedral or something. Andy, how's life?
Speaker 3:I'm good. Thank you. Yeah, I've been at work for four days so I'm a little bit tired, but Adam and I have just been out for Thai food in Mansfield, which was very nice indeed.
Speaker 1:Excellent, ben, you're back in DC.
Speaker 4:I am back in DC after my Christmas travelling and so I extended travelling because people got sick and it was all fine at the end. But we spent a lot more time in the UK than we were planning on. But we might have got to see more people in the UK which is always nice, but, yes than we were planning on. But we might have got to see more people in the UK, which is always nice, but, yeah, safely back in very, very cold DC. It's not quite as cold today, but there was a couple of days last week when it hit like 11 degrees and I don't mean centigrade, I mean Fahrenheit which in real money is like minus 12, which is absurdly cold.
Speaker 1:Fucking freezing. New York's been the same, but it's sunny and that makes everything okay. All right. So let's talk about everything and, like you know everything, things can change quickly because here we are. The last pod we did was just me and Adam talking quickly about whether Moyes was the right, or we were sort of arguing Moyes was the right choice, or you felt he was the right choice and we're three games in now and you know one defeat to Villa and two wins and suddenly everything feels rosy. Ben, you talked a lot about kind of Dyche and Dyche's style and what you felt were the limitations of that which I think you know. Think a lot of what has happened since has proven you right, but what do you think has changed? We all see Everton are a different team, but what do you think has changed since Moyes took over?
Speaker 4:So I think a couple of things. One is the tactical setup he's gone to this sort of it's not quite three at the back, but it's also quite not four at the back. It's sort of O'Brien plays as this sort of it's not quite three at the back, but it's also quite not four at the back. It's sort of O'Brien plays as this sort of tucked in right fullback and then, you know, lindstrom's playing this sort of hybrid right winger, right back role. So there's been a tactical shift as well. And also like bringing in O'Brien and giving Lindstrom decent game time both of which are things that Dyche never did sort of shows why we bought them in the summer. I know Lindstrom is on loan, but like they have been, o'brien has been superb and Lindstrom's looked like a much better player playing in a system where he's actually given the freedom to attack and go forward and not just have to worry about like tracking back 90 yards for most of the game. So there's definitely been a tactical shift in terms of personnel. But I think underlying everything and Jacob Ryan basically said this today and we didn't say it today, he might have said it a day or so ago, but there was an athletic article about Everton and the sort of the. You know how it had been under Moyes. It was about the Brighton game really, and I'm just going to read this Jake O'Brien quote to you. He says we've always had the quality, but it's about being more consistent. There's a lot more confidence now, knowing we're not just going to sit back, a team that just sits back. We're a team that's going to go and get after games and try and win. You've seen in the past few games to football and get into teams and that's what it is.
Speaker 4:I've said for a long time that the idea that Sean Dyche put out there that this bunch of players were like the dog and duck cloggers and all we could do, all we had the capability of doing, was hoofing it long and working hard and hoping something worked out. I've said for a while that that was total bollocks and David Moyes has taken about three games to prove that it was total bollocks. What Sean Dyche meant is I can't coach these players to do anything different. Well, sorry, sean, that's about your coaching ability, not their footballing ability, because you've seen far more in terms of patterns of play and possession and wanting to be on the ball in the last three games than we've seen in the last 18 months with Dyche possession and wanting to be on the ball in the last three games than we've seen the last 18 months with dice.
Speaker 4:So I think there's been a tactical change where he's gone. Hey, we've got these good players that we bought in the summer for a reason and we should get them in the team rather than you know playing michael keen god love him or you know who, ashley young got right back and then there's been a changing like emphasis and belief and I think those two things together it really does show we were never really in danger of going down if we had a competent manager at the helm, because we are just better than at least three of the teams below us, and I think Moyes proved that in the last couple of games.
Speaker 1:Adam. What do you think, Adam? You promised stats, right, you said you'd actually done research for this one, so bring it on.
Speaker 2:I mean, I I've not done any sort of you know neda manuha on the guardian football weekly level of stuff, um, but I've, uh, I spent a good about three minutes 50 seconds finding some stats um, earlier. So, um, uh, yeah, so on, um, I thought touches on in the opposition box is probably a good metric to use to look at our style of play and what it was like under Dyche, because Andrew and I were discussing this earlier. You can't create a good number of touches in the opposition box without obviously playing a way of getting it in there. You can't do it through, you know, getting free kicks and trying to get balls in the box and lots of crosses and stuff like that. So I've only managed to find some data for, like, from August up until November, but our average number of touches in the opposition box was 20. And against Spurs it was 27. And there was only one time in that bit of data under dice that I could find where it was higher than 27. And you can probably guess which game that was. It was the Bournemouth game. We objectively played very, very well when it was 35. So you know, brighton away, obviously that's different. Brighton are always going to have the ball. So it wouldn't be fair to necessarily use that metric to judge that. But in that home game and we had a good number against Villa as well, which was slightly above that average, so already you're seeing an improvement there. And obviously the O'Brien quote about they're going to try and play a bit more football was was really really telling. So already we're seeing real positive signs of how Moyes wants to get us to play more.
Speaker 2:And just looking at the Spurs game in particular, one thing I think is always been Dyche has always wanted us to try to play this high press, high pressing style um and winning the ball back. It's just that we could never we could pretty much never convert those opportunities into um creating chances. And if we did create chances we weren't scoring them, whereas when we actually did beat a press um, you know spurs's press, uh for andice and jay's goal against spurs, and then obviously calvert lewins, where we won the ball high up um we converted them into two. You know good chances and there was good quality on the ball there, um. So I don't. You've maybe got to caveat this with the fact it could be a new manager bounce, and obviously the next month's games will show us that. But things have got off to as good a start as we could probably hope for, with six points out of nine in the league.
Speaker 3:Andy have've obviously been.
Speaker 1:You know, with a sort of main kind of proponent at Dyche back in the day and we have a winning joke on here about we've all fucked that up at this point, but how are you feeling about, like, how that ended and about how that ends and the change that we've seen to Everton in the last three games?
Speaker 3:Well, the change in the last three games has been quite profound. I mean, I think history will judge Dyche's tenure at Everton slightly kinder than how we're judging it now and what I'm going to say about it in a moment, because history will judge that he kept us up in difficult circumstances with points deductions and all that. But it's clear that his limitations of a man as a manager and I've been brutally exposed because he pretty much said to the freaking group and the new board after the Bournemouth defeat last month that he'd taken the players as far as he thought he could. A new manager comes in, a new manager for these players. Obviously it's more his second time at the club and there's an instant improvement. So, yeah, dyche just, unfortunately just looks a bit of an idiot, I think. Um, and and secondly, of course, it's worth noting just how much better it is the fact that we are on the front foot more, because I've no doubt at all, if die should still be the man being the manager, he'd have have happily taken probably 0-0 in all three of these games, and that was just his approach.
Speaker 3:But we went at Tottenham, got 3-0 up, got in a winning position and then I've only seen the match of the day highlights of the Brighton game on Saturday. But I was talking to Dad, who watched it all and he was saying it was a very Dyche-like defensive performance, but the obviously the one difference being we got forward enough and won a penalty and converted it. So we turned the one point that we possibly would have had Dyche being the manager into three because we've been on the front foot more. And yet now we might have drawn all three of those games and got three points, but we've gone forward in all of them, won two of them and lost one and got six points. And that's better, because obviously we've discussed on POS before if you constantly try and keep games to nil, you're going to lose more than you win, because once you concede a goal, that's it. You know you're not going to come back.
Speaker 3:And that was the issue with Doush's last game away at Bournemouth, because we were all watching that here. As soon as that Bournemouth goal went in, you knew what the result was. Austin, you could have bet your new house on the fact that Bournemouth would win that game 1-0, because there was just no way we were coming back. And but now, just to be on the front foot more. It's almost like we've got our Everton back, the Everton that we sort of you know, remember, you know, qualified for Europe and just gave us so much fun and won the mythical Everton Cup by finishing seventh in the league every season. It's almost like you can already see elements of that team and styles of play playing now.
Speaker 1:It's funny you say that Adam and I were talking about this last week. Moyes and Everton are like two people who were like we're in a great relationship and broke up for like a student and neither it didn't work for either of them, but now for the other, because, I mean, he's been all over the place, basically, and has sort of become it was interesting that the conversation around him, a lot of people were saying you, you know, there's this sort of sentiment.
Speaker 1:Some fans are always just like I think Adam, you said this. I just think that's not remotely true if you've watched him. But I think that's what. If you listen to West Ham fans and then you've talked about your friends who are West Ham fans, they act like he's just got them playing like a bunch of cloggers. I don't want to speak. I haven't watched West Ham as much as those guys have. But you know, I remember Moyes as our manager and like we played good attacking football, like he wants to win football games and you're right, like the joke was the joke. The joke about Everton was that we finished seventh all the time. That's what people took the piss out of us for. What would you give to have that?
Speaker 4:be the joke now? Yeah, it is. Yeah, the West Ham thing is weird because I've got some friends who are West Ham fans. I love them dearly, but West Ham fans tend to have this overinflated view of the football that they should play Like. There's a lot of this talk of the West Ham way and all that sort of stuff. Moyes won them a trophy, won them a European trophy. They should build him a statue.
Speaker 4:As far as I'm concerned, so running him out of town because he played with 40% possession every game To then replace him with Lopetegui, which was a weird choice, but anyway, we are getting a whole other side issue. Yeah, I think Andrew's point about like Dyche being Sorry, what Adam said, about Dyche saying, oh, I've taken these players as far as I can, it's like, yes, you've taken the players as far as they can. Other managers will get more out of these players and that has absolutely proved to be the case. I think the one negative point on the two games, or on the Brighton game, is that it looks like we may have lost Calvin Lewin and Mangala for extended periods of time.
Speaker 4:I've not seen anything updated on the injuries yet, but when a hammer string goes, like Dom's did and it's immediately you know you're going off the field, then that's never a good sign. That's normally multiple weeks, and then Mangala tried to play on and then didn't. Therefore, you're probably looking at him being out for a few weeks as well. So they are two big blows Calvert-Lewin especially because I don't think Moyes necessarily fancies Beto that much and obviously Brodge is injured. So we may well find ourselves having to go into the transfer market for a striker in a way that we might not have done had Calvert-Lewin not had that injury. But yeah, overall good.
Speaker 1:And that transfer point is tricky. What I want to sort of move on to we've got an idea of targets, but do you see us being able to like? Getting a new striker is hard and getting a new striker that's better than Beto. I like Beto. I think he's a relatively limited footballer but actually I think quite a good instinctive finisher. Now that's a very different. He's almost the inverse of Calvert-Lewin. In that sense I like him. I think he's. I always wonder how good our second choice striker can possibly be, because who's going to sit on the bench at Everton? But do you think there's any hope we actually do something there that makes a difference versus doing what historically we will have done, which is we bring in someone who's also another second grade striker. So we have two second grade strikers and you can't add them up yeah, yeah, I think it's interesting.
Speaker 4:The thing I would highlight that's interesting about this is the story that's come out about Brozier, about about him. Basically, the talk is he's going to stay at Everton to do his rehabilitation. Now, part of that could be we couldn't agree with Chelsea the finances of sending him back, which is a whole different question about the deal that we signed. But Moyes has always been keen on Brozier. He tried to sign him a couple of times previously and now. So obviously it doesn't help us right now because he's injured. But thinking longer term, you don't know what Calvert-Lewin's going to do. I think it's pretty clear that he doesn't fancy Beto. You wonder whether keeping Brozier around is a plan for the future. We're not going to pay the £30 million or whatever the agreement is with Chelsea on the basis of this season because he's not done anything. He's been injured for most of the year. But you could see a world where that gets negotiated down come the end of the season. I think the question you've got to ask yourselves is what's the sensible thing to do right now that keeps us in the Premier League, because what you don't want to do is panic in the january and buy a, you know, like we did with under allardyce, where you bought sort of theo walcott and shank toson for a combined 40 million pounds because you know we needed players in when actually you didn't really need them to stay up. You were probably going to stay up anyway. So, like, what's the I would only? I would only go out and buy a striker if you think it actually improves the team beyond the next six months. I wouldn't go out and buy a striker because we need a striker right now. I'd much rather, if you were in a position, I'd much rather say okay, if we can't get a striker we need right now, I'd rather get a like a winger that will help us longer term, because then can you do some something where you're pushing jai into the middle if you really need to and like and do something a bit more creative there, which we've seen. Obviously we've seen molly's do in the past with it's not quite the same, but when he had to play k or filet he's a striker like. I'd much rather look at long term. What do we than? Oh, we need a striker right now because Calvert-Williams got injured and Brozier's injured, so let's go sign a striker. I just think that is the short-termism and we can get on to where we think this plays out in the league.
Speaker 4:But you look at the maths of this, right and I did this the other day If you take the points per game that basically Leicester, Wolves, ipswich have got over the course of the season, it's about 0.7, right, it's about 0.7 points per game. You take that over the full 38-game season, assuming they don't get any enormously better, they get to about 27, 28 points, right? So how many points do we realistically need? Now, I'm not pretending that they won't get better, because you know relegation does funny things to teams at the end. But like, even in a world where they double their points per game, they still only get to like mid 30s. So, like, how many points do we realistically need to avoid relegation? And therefore, what's the cost benefit of investing a huge amount of money on a striker when you're probably going to get, like, what we need? 10 points. 11 points probably will keep us up. We're going to pick up 10 11 points in the remainder of the games with, without signing anybody. I'm not saying we should do that, but that's the calculation you've got to make.
Speaker 1:It's interesting that because I wonder you know the deadline is Sunday, which is the second right, 11pm, whatever. Obviously we play Leicester on Saturday and we'll talk about that game in a bit more detail. But you wonder, if you were running Everton you might look at that game and go but who win that game? And we've got points, then I think then you're like well, I mean you, you better particularly bear in mind you're beating Leicester. You're like well, that's a big deal, because you say if you get eight more points between then, the end of the season, you're almost certainly safe. So you might make that judgment yeah, um hello again.
Speaker 4:So we didn't we didn't mention that you, we never mentioned that you guys your connection dropped out. We were just seamlessly we were professional about it. We lost Adam and Andrew for about two minutes there, which is why you just exclusively heard from me. Ben and I carried it very well actually, yeah, we did, and for those of you you can't see this because this isn't a video format but Adam and Andrew have moved rooms from the study into Adam's bedroom, so I was like quite lovingly lying next to each other on Adam's bed.
Speaker 1:They're kind of like Morecambe and Wise for those of you who are watching.
Speaker 3:One for the kids there.
Speaker 4:Or that scene from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, when all the grandparents are in bed.
Speaker 3:This is also my old bedroom as well. There you go, exactly so nice symmetry to it all.
Speaker 4:Anyway, transfers. Someone talk about transfers.
Speaker 2:I agree with what you said, ben. I think if you look at the number of points, even in the best that Ipswich or Wolves or Leicester can hope for, which is like 36 points, they've got to more than double their tally between now with 15 games. They've got 15 games remaining. We've got 16, caveat the fact that it's the derby We've got to like. Are we saying that we're not going to get 15 points from our remaining 16 matches? It's just not going to happen. We're going to do that because we're going to do better than we are we have done. All we need to do is just do just as slightly less, slightly worse than what our current points per game total shows.
Speaker 1:Well, the funny thing is, if we got a point per game between now and the end of the season, we'd end up on 39 points, right, I think. So you know you, which is dice would get you a point per game. So moise could have come in, won these two fucked off. We bring sean dice, you know, like that, you're right, like we. Just that that's where I saw six or seven point difference. You're still hitting guys, not that that much, but actually it is because people are not going to randomly double. The conversation we were having before about AI stuff, before we started recording the idea a team just doubles their average points per game. It's just not going to happen.
Speaker 2:Name me some strikers that have worked out in January. I'd be struggling to name five to ten. I can name one for Everton, which is Nikicilla Jelovic.
Speaker 4:I was going to say Jelovic as well. I was going to say Jelovic as well.
Speaker 1:Andy, you might remember this better than I did. We signed Kevin Campbell in January as well.
Speaker 2:I think I'm on loan. I think we signed Campbell before. What a leper, and also.
Speaker 4:I think we signed Campbell before the days where transfer windows existed, so it wasn't quite the same.
Speaker 1:But it was like mid-season now. But I agree with you, I don't think there's been many and we all know you overpay and we've got FFP stuff. So you know, I would rather they had kind of eyes on a prize. We signed Kevin Campbell in.
Speaker 4:March, March of 1999. So he came in really late in the season and saved us.
Speaker 1:I think it was like six games.
Speaker 2:He scored nine goals in like six games, or 11 in nine or something.
Speaker 4:Nine in eight, as the man who was looking at his Wikipedia page.
Speaker 1:I remember that, those games so well, those goals he scored.
Speaker 4:So sorry this is. I'm just I'm diving into a Kevin Campbell rabbit hole. Now we signed bear in mind, we signed him in March. By the end of the season he was our top goal scorer, both at home and away. We signed him in.
Speaker 1:March, we were shit, do we?
Speaker 2:were shit. Do you remember the old joke like people were going around the houses around Gladys Street and Bullens Road like asking for, asking for change, so they could like give it to the club so we could buy him permanently?
Speaker 4:yeah, six goals in his first three games. He won player of the month award in April.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, he was an amazing player for us. May he rest in peace legend.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, I think, signing wise. I agree with Ben steer clear of a striker, because Beto is our worst in inverted commas, strike out the three that we have, but currently he's our only fit one. And obviously the news is about Calvert-Lewin will come out in the next few days, I'm sure, but I'd be looking at a left-back because I do like Michael Lenko, but I think he is definitely the sort of area that we need to look at and there's someone more attacking, and I don't necessarily say that Michael Lanko needs to play second place, but I think there's a space for him as being one of our options at centre-back, actually as the left-sided centre-back, and put Brandt way in the middle of a back three. I think there's an option there, but I'd be looking at that, or someone if he does want to play wingbacks. I think we've played.
Speaker 2:Obviously we played the 3-5-2 or whatever formation you want to call it, with back three against Spurs, but in the other two games we played four at the back, so it remains to be seen what sort of formation will be his preference, but I think we should be looking at, especially with McNeil being out for some time. I think we do need more creativity around attack midfield area, whether that's a, and I would be looking at why a wide, a more wide player, because and jides, because he's, uh, you know, so agile, so skillful, both footed. I think he is good on the left, but I think he is 70, 80 of the player that he can be on the left than it is um more centrally, um, so I'd be looking at someone, um someone out wide, um, uh, either um wide left or wide right for me andy, what are your thoughts on, like the transfer window a few days left?
Speaker 1:what are the priorities?
Speaker 3:yeah, this is a really interesting discussion because I thought that, in order to capitalise on the fact we're being on the front foot, more that getting somebody to stick the ball in the net would be a priority. But listening to Ben speak about the number of points Everton actually need to stay in the division has changed my mind around that, because I haven't thought of it in quite those circumstances, when we just have discussed this before, I've said left-back and left-side of the team every single time, because I've got, you know, mikalenko, he's, if you think of you think of the person in that position was Luka Dean prior to him. They're light years away in terms of ability and level of play in my opinion. So I've always felt he's a little bit of he tries hard. I've always felt he's a little bit of a weak link defensively. So at the very least, we want another player, at least a challenge, for that position, and I agree with what Adam just said about more attacking play in the wide areas as well.
Speaker 3:But again, ben's absolutely right If we beat Leicester, get up to 26 points, there's every chance the club might look around and go well, yeah, we only need 10 more points. This squad can get 10 more points. We'll keep our powder dry, um, not risk any. You know PSR issues and also as well, of course. I believe 10 or 11 players are out of contract at the end of the season, yeah, so so there's that aspect to it as well. They can have a good look round and look at who they might want to offer contracts to or who they might want to let go. I want to talk about that contract thing.
Speaker 1:I'm going to read you the list of people who are out of contract. Yeah, so, calvert-lewin, decore, keane Garnagay, ashley Young, seamus Coleman, joe Virginia, asma Begovic, and then obviously we've got Brozier and Harrison as domestic loans that will go back, which I have. That's 10, and maybe I'm missing something.
Speaker 1:And then well, you've got Mangala and Lindstrom as well, who are foreign loans thank you so much so of those players, and particularly the ones that are sort of the permanent players, if you like, who are out of contract, who are our priorities to re-sign, because it's a hell of a thing. We have a relatively small squad. I think our first team squad is 23 or 24 players and we've just listed 14 of them who, by default, are leaving, so there's going to be no one. We literally won't be able to field a team mathematically, so presumably some of these players are going to be kept on. Any strong views on who should be retained from that group?
Speaker 4:I think. So putting aside the loan. Well, let me cover loan players quickly. I think you find a way to keep Mangala. I think you find a way to keep Lindstrom if the price is right, because I think they'd be good. Harrison think you find a way to keep Mangala. I think you find a way to keep Lindstrom if the price is right, because I think they've been good. Harrison, yeah, could take or leave Brogier, depending on what you think about his fitness.
Speaker 4:I think the priorities of the other ones are Calvert-Lewin, but reasons we've all discussed, I think, for all of his injury problems and whatever. Getting buying strikers is hard. The other one, the second one I would actually put on that list, is Garner Gay, because I think he's so crucial to how we play and he's still. He was our man of the match against Brighton and does so much of the yards in the midfield and the dirty work. I would sign Decore and Keane if the deal was right. I think Decore still gives you some legs in midfield. I think he's still pretty poor on the ball. Keane is a fine fourth, fifth centre-back, like, so keep him around if the deal, if the deal's cheap, I think you let Ashley Young go because I think he's. I think he's done.
Speaker 4:I mean, maybe keep Coleman because of the sentimentality more than anything else he's. You know good to have in the in the dressing room and you know a competent third choice right back and play. You know good to have in the in the dressing room and you know a competent third choice right back and play. You know center back in a three and a pinch. And then Virginia because you need a spare goalkeeper. So I would definitely be okay with, like I think I feel if they all went I'd feel we were in a big problem. I think it'd be fine with one of the goalkeepers and Ashley Young leaving. I'd be fine if Coleman retired. I'd be fine if Coleman retired. I'd be fine if Keane left. I'd be kind of fine if Decore left. I think Gay and Calvert-Lewin and then Mangala Lindstrom are the four that I would really focus on.
Speaker 1:Andy Adam thoughts.
Speaker 2:I think I disagree with Ben slightly around Decore, because I think the wages have got to be taken into account, because two of those three, three of the top earners of our club, two of whom are out of contract, which is Gay and Decoray so yeah, it depends what source you want to look at, but you know Decoray is on anything up to about 130,000 a week.
Speaker 4:Yeah, as a caveat. Obviously, like reasonable deal, I'm not re-signing about 130 grand.
Speaker 2:No, I'm not suggesting that's what you're saying. What I'm saying is that even if he takes half that salary, that's still you know that's still looking at like three million a year for a player who is objectively been pretty rubbish and is not going to get. I don't think it's going to get much better. I think Gay is far more valuable to Moyes' system and the sort of system that Moyes would want to play. So I personally wouldn't be retiring Decore. I think he's been really good for us since he joined in 2017. Yeah, 2017, I think it was no 2019 when Ancelotti came in, so I'd be looking. And then I think, if the price is right for Lindstrom, I agree, I think Mangala's a really tidy player. I think he's good if you can get him on a good deal.
Speaker 2:I think I've got a few friends at work who are Forest fans and they said, you know, last season he was one player who really had some composure on the ball and made them, you know, really got the sort of football inside of their, of how their manager wanted them to play going, and we've seen that themselves. He's a really tidy, composed player, even when even in a dice system he sort of stood out in that regard. So I'd be looking at him as a priority, I think Calvert-Lewin obviously the injury maybe changes things, but it's all against Spurs. He looked much more like the player that we saw towards the end of Dyche's first season in that January to May time when we just stayed up. He was integral to the way that we played and obviously if we can get him scoring again like we did under Ancelotti, then he'll be huge. But I think it's safe to say that he doesn't want to sign a new contract. So I think we can unfortunately say, you know, wave him goodbye. Safe to say that he doesn't want to um, that he doesn't want to sign a new contract. So I think we can unfortunately say, um, you know, wave him, goodbye.
Speaker 2:Um, I think the number of players like going out like that obviously leaves our, leave our squad really thin. So, and with that it's not so much the fact that you have to, you have to, uh, those, those players go out, but obviously those players therefore need, you know, replacing um, and that's an enormous number of new players to integrate into a, into a team, and that never really works like having such high turnover of players. Never works like that. The best teams are always the ones that add one or two players, like every summer, and build a team slowly. So, um the too long didn't be part of my answer. Is uh no to the core. A get virginia in. Keep michael keen, uh lindstrom if he's, if he's uh on the right, right money, but definitely he'll be looking at um mangala, as would be my uh would be my priority.
Speaker 1:Andy, what are your thoughts on that? I'm interested in what you think about whether you want generally to keep most of those players or whether you fancy a clear out.
Speaker 3:I broadly agree with the sentiments that have just been expressed by Ben and Adam in terms of who to keep and who to let go. Ashley Young it's his one song season. He's right at the end of his career, obviously. He's arguably been our best player in certain games this season, which is a testament to just how badly some of the other players have performed in various matches. Again, I'd like to see Calvert-Lewin stay.
Speaker 3:I've been quite critical of him at times this season, but again already under Moyes in the three games, he looks like a little bit like already the Calvert-Lewin that was playing under Ancelotti, where he was just getting more opportunities and more chances. He still misses some chances, but he's just getting more opportunities because we're in the opposition box more. I mean, he seems to think he's going to be playing for a more high-profile club than Everton that's higher up the division. I'm not so sure if that's going to be the case. I think he might have ideas above his station and he's being told things by his agent or hangers-on or whoever. It might be that he's better than he actually is. So if no offers are forthcoming, then will he sign a new contract in Everton?
Speaker 3:I think there's every chance that he might do Equally. Of course he will end up going somewhere else and we don't get anything for him. We'll have to wait and see. But no, I'd be happy keeping Michael Keane. He's perfectly decent cover for centre-back. I'd like to see DCL stay, but we'll have to see if he does or not. I'd be happy to see Begovic go. The few games I've seen Jan Virginia play over the years, I think he's played the odd cup game. Here and there he's actually looked quite decent. So again, for a number two goalkeeper he's been perfectly adequate. So yeah, I would agree with the sentiments already expressed about who to keep and who to let go.
Speaker 1:It's a hell of a job, isn't it? Especially when, of course, the other person who's got his contract at the end of the summer is Kevin Thelwell, who's responsible for all of this. So there's a sort of cliff edge there all around, which I hope some sensible people at the club are thinking about. All right, we've got a few minutes left. Let's talk about the Leicester game Funny one. This because I think Begovic.
Speaker 2:Sorry, I think Begovic should stay, purely for the fact that I completely forgot that he was even our player, until I see him be a shithouse at the weekend at the end of that melee.
Speaker 4:Speaking of which, can I just bring something up before we move on to the rest of the game? I don't know what you're going to say. Hasn't you ever known anyone to be given a yellow card for impersonating a seagull before?
Speaker 1:I was going to ask you, ben, which rule does that? Which paragraph 47c do not. You cannot impersonate birds on the field.
Speaker 4:I, I sort of I was watching this game live and I saw that he scored and I saw the celebration. It was all very funny. And then I saw that he got a yellow card and I was like I was trying to track it, like. I then watched it back and I saw if he did anything else. I watched another replay from another angle and I watched the highlights and I was like no, no, he was given a yellow card because he was deemed to be winding up the opposition fans by doing this. He was allowed to wind up the opposition fans. Sorry, we don't give you yellow cards for hurt feelings anymore.
Speaker 1:RAOUL PAL. Also the rules. The rules are therefore contextual, it's like. It's like if I do a seagull impression at any other ground, that's not a yellow card.
Speaker 4:And also it doesn't make any sense, because a seagull's a really easy thing to impersonate, right? How do you fucking impersonate a toffee?
Speaker 3:That is a yellow card that we can't have at all.
Speaker 1:We can't have that awarded against us. It's impossible. If I'm at Newcastle and I take my shirt off and reveal a pair of giant mantids, am I taking the piss?
Speaker 4:But I have to say I mean, the referee was total bobbins on. I can't remember who it was. Was it Tim Robinson? He was bobbins. And he's always Bobbins whenever I've watched him, so it doesn't surprise me at all that he decided that impersonating a seagull was a bookable offence and it took him forever as well to give that penalty.
Speaker 1:And I was listening to that bit, I was driving and Graham Stewart and what's his name? I always forget his name Ian Snowden. No, the guy who's the Everton's media guy. They were incredulous. They were like because it was a funny one and you could see why he said it, because only Beto really claims for it. No one else does anything. And then they see the replay and they were like it's a penalty, it's got to be a penalty. And it was so funny because it was five minutes of graham stewart going. It's got to be a penalty, it's got to be. It took that long for them to go. Well, he's clearly handled it. He clearly moved his arm like it took. You know, I was timing it. In the end it was five and a half minutes to make that decision I mean that I didn't know it was that long.
Speaker 3:That's genuinely extraordinary, because I was at work on Saturday so I'd listened on Radio 5 and they cut to that game when that incident happened and the consensus on Radio 5 was the penalty decision was a bit contentious and Everton were a little bit fortunate to get it. And then when I saw it later I thought, well, what on earth is the debate about If you don't give a penalty for that? He hit the ball with his arm. Yeah, it's obviously a penalty. It can't be anything else.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know there's no way and it's like again. I understand why the referee couldn't see it because it's in front. You know there's players in it, but the amount of time it took VAR to give that, and then he's looking at all these different replays, it was really a weird one.
Speaker 2:It wasn't the worst of the referee in Dijon of the weekend, of course.
Speaker 1:That.
Speaker 2:Arsenal left back, getting sent off for what was basically a trip.
Speaker 4:I haven't seen yet. I'm gonna, I'm gonna be the refereeing fraternity here and say it's not just a trip, he, if he rakes, he rakes. He rakes his studs down his shin. And he's doing it with no, he does, he does. If you watch the replay, he rakes his studs down his shin. Watch the replay he rakes his studs down his shin. That's why Michael Oliver gave a red card and the fact that he's doing it with no intention to play the ball at all.
Speaker 4:I can understand why a red card was given. I don't think it's a red card, but I can absolutely in law justify a red card in that scenario.
Speaker 1:Do you think that'll get overturned?
Speaker 4:No, I don't think that'll get overturned. No, I shouldn't say that it might get overturned, it might not. I can absolutely see why Michael Oliver saw what he saw gave a red card. I can also understand why VAR didn't go. I think he made a mistake here, because it's not just a trip. Henry Winter said this Like every trip is now a red card, it's bollocks. It's not a trip. Look at where the contact is. Look at where the angle of his bad challenge that he does. He's trying to trip him. He's trying to clip his ankles and take him down and get a yellow card and that's fine. He does it badly. He catches him with his studs and he breaks down and it's like it's not a good tackle nah disagree, sorry okay you're allowed, you're allowed to.
Speaker 2:I do agree. It's like I do agree, like, agree, like it's intentional. It's one of those that I've said for years like there needs to be a, a yellow card. A yellow card doesn't suffice because he does it because with the intention of thinking that he's going to get a yellow card, which is you know, it nullifies the entire point of having a yellow card If the punishment is worth the it's on the long spurs left wing and the glisser guy was on the floor and he just wrapped his arms around his.
Speaker 4:I'm not sure how. I'm not sure how much you were paying attention, but Bergwijn hasn't played for Spurs in about 18 months.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I didn't think I'd be right.
Speaker 4:I thought you said Bergwijn I was going to let it slide, it was Mickey Moore and it was Harry Wink that was very kind of you.
Speaker 1:As we all know, ben hasn't let anything slide since 1992. So it was never going to happen. But it was never going to happen there, but it was. It was like it was one of those like he gave a yellow card, but it was like such a ludicrous foul that it should have been more than that. It shouldn't be a red card you can get sent off for it, but it should be like a what you're taking the piss there. Mate additional, you know, grabbed him it really should be.
Speaker 2:That. That's for me. That's what Lewis Skelly should have like yeah, there needs to be a punishment, please, there is. No, there wasn't a right punishment, so it's one of those. It's almost like yeah, I just don't. I just think the bar for that meeting, a red card wasn't met.
Speaker 1:All right, so we've got like three minutes but we need to wrap up. We're going to do predictions for the Leicester game quickly. We've won this because you know we've won a couple of games. Leicester are crap, but we think, you know, they've just beat Spurs. We know Spurs are crap. We played them. It's a strange one to read, ben. What do you think? Prediction for the Everton-Leicester on Saturday? I think we'll win.
Speaker 4:I think we'll win 2-0. Because, yes, leicester beat Spurs, but Spurs are rubbish. They're on a terrible run of form. They can't defend. Leicester were no great shakes in that game at all. They were dodgy at the back, they were dodgy from the set pieces. They've been terrible all season. Obviously, they get a bit of confidence from getting the win, but I still think we are a better team and have better players and have a better manager. So I think, yeah, 2-0, 2-0 Everton.
Speaker 1:Andy, what do you think?
Speaker 3:I think the Leicester beating Spurs result was a bit of a blip for them. I think a much more accurate demonstration of where they are in the Premier League is the fact they lost six games on the bounce prior to that get the Spurs game. I don't think Van Nistelrooy is a good managerial appointment, Contrast that with the upturn in form Everton have had since Moyes has been appointed. I am going to be super optimistic and I think we're going to win 3-0. Incredible.
Speaker 1:Literally as in I'm incredulous, adam thoughts.
Speaker 2:I agree with Andrew. I think we're quite as optimistic as a 3-0 victory, but I think it'll be comfortable for us In general. I think we'll do. We will provide some scares because it's Everton, but I think we'll do. We will provide some scares because it's Everton, but I think we'll win.
Speaker 1:I think we'll win 2-0 alright, I think we'll win 2-1, because I think there'll be some scares. It's not going to be comfortable, but I think we'll do it. Alright, we're going to wrap it up. Good to see you all. Thanks for listening. Follow us on Apple Podcasts, spotify, wherever you get your podcasts. That's where we are and we'll see you next time. Come on, you Blues.