Blues Brothers Everton Podcast
Blues Brothers Everton Podcast
What to do about Dyche, and Spurs Preview
Are Evertonian's expecting too much from Sean Dyche? We break down the 3-0 defeat to Brighton, and preview the Spurs game this weekend.
I like Sean Dyche. I think he's perfectly good as an Everton manager. I think he'll do what we need to do, which is to stay in the Premier League. But we are living in cloud cuckoo land if we think that he's going to do anything except everything that he. Blues Brothers Misery Everton podcast. Here we are again Hopes and dreams. We had last week Hopes and dreams and they were predictably crushed. Ben dodged the bullet of not making a prediction on the uh on the brighton game, so uh can hold his head high. The rest of us, um, uh predicted glory and uh, everton intervened and brought us back to reality. But here we are onwards. Um, so we got. Adam, ben and dad are all in the same place. They're all all at home back in Mansfield and I'm staring at them, all looking like they're being held hostage. I'll put a photo on our Twitter so you can see what I'm looking at.
Speaker 1:The lighting is not doing us any favours.
Speaker 3:It is very.
Speaker 1:Afghanistan, circa 2002. Andy's not here. He described himself. Andy said he was out. That was the only thing he said. So God knows what he's not here. He described him. Andy said he was out. That was the only thing he said. So God knows what he's up to, but I hope he's having a great time. Dad, how are you doing?
Speaker 2:I'm okay, thanks. Yeah, I'm very good.
Speaker 1:Awesome Ben. How's life? Yeah, all very good. We arrived here earlier today, so yeah, all good For the record. And earlier today, so yeah, all good For the record. And it's easy to say this after the fact I was going to predict us to lose 2-1 to Brighton and for the season prediction, I think we're going to finish 16th. So one of those is easier to believe after the fact than the other. But there we go, we'll see how it works out, Adam how's life?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm good, thank you. Yeah, all good Awesome.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, we're going to talk about the Brighton game. We're going to talk a little bit about transfer stuff. We're going to talk about the Tottenham game, adam, I'll start with you. You and Dad went to this game. I believe I watched it on TV in New York, so obviously I have a sort of view on that as well. But, adam, what was it like? I think people know the sort of a sense that it was very similar to last season in that we really dominated first half. Then obviously it fell apart. It seemed like the atmosphere sort of obviously a lot of empty seats by the end.
Speaker 3:Like describe the feeling in the game and what the crowd was sort of feeling as we went through that. Well, we had I mean the applause and, like you know, the noise at the start of the game was incredible. I would describe it as a Derby-esque sort of roar that the fans gave when we came out and I think maybe the fact that it's our last season at Goodison maybe had something to do with that. So they were right behind them and the game started and the players reacted to that really well and our game plan was very obvious, which was to press high, win the ball back, catch them off guard and try and score, and it worked really really well. I think I counted in the first half.
Speaker 3:Brighton obviously have got a system which is where they only ever want to play out from the back, which sometimes involves their central defender actually taking a goal kick to the goalkeeper, which is a bit odd and I counted only two occasions in the first half where they actually got through our press and that's not got through as into danger as in actually they got out of, I would say, their third of the pitch because they gave it away. At least put it out for a throw-in or we won it back at least six or seven times. So it worked really really well. So that showed how well-drilled we were and also how poor and unconfident Brighton were. And because that that's what the first half was, it was.
Speaker 3:It was us, us, dom, we really did dominate that game, um for the first, for most of the first half, and then brighton scored on their first first attack and it sort of then killed the um. It sort of killed the atmosphere a little bit. And I think to address your thing about the fans in particular and how they sort of felt with all the empty seats, I think a lot of that was just frustration, because we knew that we played well, we knew that how well we'd done, and then we ended up being three goals down and it wasn't a 3-0 game, it really wasn't. I think they were just. You know they were clinical and a mixture of them being clinical in front of goal, but you know some really really poor defending for the second goal in particular, where you know everyone just backs off and backs off the main threat, which is the person with the ball.
Speaker 1:Yeah the ball.
Speaker 3:yeah, yes, which is mad. I was saying it to Dad until he was probably sick of me saying it Like you close down the person with the ball because he's running straight through. You don't back off and back off, and back off until he can just knock it in from 20 yards, yeah. So, yeah, it was really disappointing the result was. But I said in the podcast before the game I wanted to see a real positive performance and we definitely saw that in the first half.
Speaker 3:And then, you know, obviously, when Ashley Young did his usual Ashley Young thing, which is to, you know, put us in the shit, he you know that sort of killed any sort of any chance that we got. And we've had a good couple of opportunities in the game because, you know, obviously we had the offside with Decore and the bad miss by McNeil, and then we had the penalty incident, but we did have. We had the offside with Decore and the bad miss by McNeill, and then we had the penalty incident. But we had a good three or four decent opportunities in that first half, whereas Brighton had two where they hit the post and then scored. So we had the better of the game in the first half and then their goal sort of took away our endeavour, and Ashley Young put to bed any chance of getting back into the game.
Speaker 1:Dad, what was your sense of that?
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, I mean I think we huffed and puffed a little bit in the first half. Their first attack was when they hit the post actually. So they only had two attacks, two big attacks in the first half, but I thought they were much more clinical than we were. They were quicker on the ball. You know, when they attacked they attacked with intent, even though it was only a couple of times as we huffed and puffed and we had the chances. And the second half we just disintegrated.
Speaker 2:Obviously, the Ashley Young sending off sending off didn't help, but to me, and I think to lots of Evertonians, it was a throwback to somewhere where we thought we weren't going to be this season, playing poorly, getting hammered at home when you're expected to win, particularly on the back of the end of last season where we had the five victories home victories on the balance.
Speaker 2:So I think it came to a shock to us all, all Evertonians. You know, Adam and I, we went after the third goal, as did, you know, most other people, because I think we were just surprised. It's just, I wasn't expecting it. All the pundits were expecting us to win. Yeah, you know, all the pundits are saying we're 12th or 13th and you're beginning to think, you know, even after one game is it going to be the same? Yeah, you know, we're still going to have all this spectre of you know, the best ground in the Championship. You know, and I know it's only one game, but these things may not certainly in my mind now and my guess is in the minds of lots of Evertonians, unfortunately.
Speaker 1:Well, because it's such a, because it's so reminiscent of the start of last season and that Fulham game isn't it. It literally is. Here we go again. So, as you think about this, obviously there's things that the managers and the coaches do, and then there's the things that the players do, and you know football holds managers to account for everything. It very rarely is. You know they never sack players right, because that would be too expensive, ben, what do you think? You know, having thought about this game for a few days now, you know it was a real failure to lose 3-1 to Brighton. Where is it on that mix of how the team is drilled and coached and set up, versus decisions?
Speaker 1:I mean it was even a big failure because we lost 3-0. Yeah, we did, didn't we? You're right. Yeah, you've given us a goal that we did not earn. Maybe you're just imagining that Dwight McNeil scored the one he should have done.
Speaker 1:I know it was offside, but you should still stick it in the net, dwight, make the maker decision. The thing I would say is the nature of the way that you play with Dyche and the way that he sets up his system and the way that you earn points is you're going to have games like this, and it is not unknown for us to have games like this under Dyche. It's not unknown for us to have games like this as Everton fans, over the course of the season. Season, I think, because he plays a very disciplined, very organized system that is designed to win you games 1-0.
Speaker 1:And when teams break you down, I think there is still there is a lack of ability to get back into games. I mean, I think it was I don't know if it was true at the end of the season, but I know for a large portion of the way through the season we were the only team, I think, in the Premier League who'd not won a game when we were trailing at any point. So as soon as we went behind, we just eliminated any ability. We had to win the game. Because the way Dyche sets up and the way he plays and the way he's organised, I think he's come under lots of criticism after this performance for team selection, and why is he relying on Ashley Young and blah blah?
Speaker 3:blah and all this stuff.
Speaker 1:But the reality is this is who we are, this is the football he's going to play, this is the set-up he's going to have and as fans, you can decide that you don't like that. Ok, who or what is your alternative is what I would like to hear. But if you decide that the biggest priority is staying in the Premier League in order to get into the new stadium, to unlock the revenue that that comes with and build from there, then you know Dyche is your best. As far as I'm concerned, sticking with Sean Dyche for this season is your best option. But the football's not going to be great. But no one hiring Sean Dyche hires him for the high-quality, attacking, free-flowing football that he plays.
Speaker 1:You know, I was saying we were off-air because we have these conversations off-air. I was saying this to Dad earlier Like asking Sean Dyche to pick you know, this attacking, attacking flair players and play open, attacking football like a Brighton do, it's like asking your dog to wash the dishes Like it's just you can will it as much as you like, he's never going to do it. He's never going to do it because that's not how he thinks, that's not how he sets up teams to win football games, and that's disappointing because I'd love us to play like Brighton. And, by the way, I said it in the preview to this game, dominic Calvert-Lewin has a heck of a lot to answer for, because Yacoubu Minte who skipped around Mikalenko for their first goal and stuck the cross in, would be an Everton player if Dominic Calvert-Lewin hadn't demanded ridiculous wages.
Speaker 1:And that was a real great summary of what we don't have in our attacking players. We have nobody. Maybe Lindstrom, maybe I don't know, we haven't seen him. We have nobody who can do what Minte did there. We have nobody in our squad who can quick feet round the fullback and stick it in. We have Harrison and Neil, who are good players in certain ways but are never going to do that that's why it's possible, yeah, like they like it
Speaker 1:let me just so I I think I agree with what you're saying about daisha style of football and the pragmatism completely. But if you look at this game, let me offer you a point of view and tell me if you think this is I'm being too generous. We were even when we went one nil down. You know we had dominated up until that point, adam, as you said. We then go, well, one nil down. Okay, that can happen. You know, a team can score a goal. It was a good goal. Yes, we should have defended it better.
Speaker 1:Garner then makes a absolutely inexplicable decision around a 10-yard pass that he screws up, and then very, very quickly after that, michael Keane forgets the first thing you're taught as a kid about defending, which is you close the ball down Because that's the only thing that's dangerous on the pitch, is the ball right. Nothing else matters. So that's like decisions that players make, and then obviously we're 2-0 down and then Ashley Young doesn't actually young, as you say. Those things are nothing, I would say, to do with Dyche's system or approach. Right, there are other things that happened that didn't happen in the game. But you know, garner not making a 10 yard pass, michael Keane not closing the ball down. Ashley Young, you know, trying to control that ball rather than heading it, which is what he should have done. They're not things that Sean is Dyche's like I say, like I know him is coaching the team to do right. They're not system issues, they're individual decisions. Yes, but and you know, dad, you've led organizations and you've led big teams and you've done that Decisions by individuals are influenced by the direction, leadership, coaching freedom that they're given by the people in charge.
Speaker 1:Now, I'm not saying that Sean Dyche is responsible for Idrissa Garnagay playing a bad pass, but he's responsible for the fact that Idrissa Garnagay is looking to play that pass to his left rather than looking at Mikalenko on the left flank who is blazing into open space behind the back line, because Idrissa Garnagay has been told to play a certain way as a central midfielder, which probably doesn't involve hey, I want you to play progressive passes over the top to the overlapping fullback right.
Speaker 1:So, yes, he's not responsible for the fact Idrissa Garnagay played the terrible packs, but he is responsible in the sense that they are being drilled to play a certain way, and this is and I can't believe I'm about to say this, but like this is the Rafa Benitez point right Is that if you're drilling your players to play in a certain way and then they make mistakes, you need to look at yourself as a coach and go am I drilling them the wrong way? Am I asking them to do the wrong things? Dad is shaking his head. For those of you can't video, listen to this, I'm all audio comment. That is shaking his head so I'm going to hand over.
Speaker 1:Yeah, disagree with the counterpoint because it's too easy.
Speaker 2:I mean I express my disappointment and surprise at the performance, but it's too easy to turn on the manager and blame the tactics and everything. I mean, don't forget this was the manager who got us to a. What would have been 12th last season would have been 48 points, got us 40 points, 13 ahead of um of relegation. It's too easy, no let me be clear.
Speaker 1:I'm not turning on Deitch, I'm I'm saying. What I'm saying is is I think I don't think he should get rid of him. What I'm saying is the way he drills. The players ends up sometimes having performances like this well, I?
Speaker 2:well, okay, you say you're not blaming him. I I disagree. I think it is too easy to repeat myself. It is too easy to blame the manager. It's early days, yet he did well for us last season. You've got to remember the injuries that we had as well. If we'd have had Brant Waite and Coleman playing, we wouldn't have well, we wouldn't have had our right back centre off apart from when they aren't but we certainly wouldn't have conceded three goals and the result might have been different.
Speaker 2:If it continues, I think there will be questions asked of Dierks. I think he should play at least at. I'm going to say what's his name Andai, andai. Yeah, thank you, I think he should play Andai on Saturday. Yeah, ben doesn't think he will because he thinks he's too set in his ways. I'll be disappointed. Ben doesn't think he will because he thinks that he's too set in his ways. I'll be disappointed if he doesn't because, as some reports I think it was in the Echo, we've had the same four forwards playing on Saturday has managed to create or score the next to lowest number of games in the Premier League last season. And it is the definition of insanity, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And expecting a different result. So I will be disappointed and I will start to edge towards agreeing with Ben that there are issues with the manager if he doesn't take the opportunity, beginning on Saturday, to change the approach.
Speaker 3:So go ahead. The issue we're going to see with Dyche is that he's going to get us to a point of safety, which he did last season to save us from relegation, and then obviously take away the PSR points he got us 12. So what's going to happen is the style of play argument is going to become more and more common because, ben's right, there is a style of play. There's no arguing against that. It's a very pragmatic sort of approach. But that pragmatism also leads to some, you know, to a real tactical. Real tactical now.
Speaker 3:So, where you can see that very clearly in the Brighton game, particularly in the first 20 minutes where we were so well drilled, brighton didn't have a clue how to get through our forward, our front four, with their pressing and I said it again, it's worth repeating that they either put the ball out of play or gave it straight to us at least six or seven times in that first 25 minutes or so.
Speaker 3:And that's Dyche's system. The players are executing it, but that's Dyche's setting up and that's where the real positive comes from. And then it becomes the responsibility of the players to then, you know, get in good positions. And I think that's where we lack that sort of quality and we've added to that because you know we've we've improved our forward line significantly with lindstrom and um and and die. So I would, and I agree with, I agree with um, you know, I would hope that he would play and I think he should play and I hold, I don't think, even if he doesn't play on Saturday, which obviously he should I wouldn't be worrying too much because I think him and our director of football, whose name a couple of years escapes me now.
Speaker 3:Kevin Falwell thanks him and Dyche will have a good working working relationship in terms of their approach to the game and how they want to play. I think I don't think it's a case of, you know, directors of football, technical directors, whatever you want to call them um in some clubs, where they are buying players and then the player and then the manager has to find a way to make them work in a system. I don't think that's what necessarily is happening. I think the players are being targeted based on the sort of things that we need, because we're one of the lowest scoring teams, one of the lowest creating chances teams last season which was a terrible way of putting a phrase in that, but it was the statistic is true. You knew what you meant and so we've talked to those positions and improved them, and I don't think it's a case of you know, farewell, identifying these players. We're getting these players and Dice is going don't like him, I'm not going to play him. I don't think that's going to. I really don't think that's going to happen. I think he is too set in his ways where he doesn't like to play the new players straight away, and I think sorry, I think Decore, as good as he was being our top scorer last season.
Speaker 3:I know I said in last week's pod it was McNeil, obviously it was Decore with seven. I think he went through that purple patch before his injury when he was making good runs and he showed himself to be a goal-scoring number 10. But I think, unfortunately, on Saturday he showed a lot of evidence to the argument that he is not in any way technically able to play that role and I think Ndai is a far, far better choice there and I would expect him to play that role. And I think Ndai is a far, far better choice there and I would expect him to to play. And then Decore would be, um, you know, providing competition for that, for that role, or you know, playing uh, further back um around where Garner plays. I mean, we do know one thing.
Speaker 1:Obviously, adam, as you say, if we're in a situation where we're signing these players who are designed to address a problem that everyone agrees we have, and the manager isn't picking them over you know we're having this conversation in a month and he's, like you know, and Dian Lindstrom are on the bench that's a huge problem, not because not just because it means we won't be scoring the goals we could score if we have those players playing, because it means the club's dysfunctional.
Speaker 1:Now, of course the club is dysfunctional, we know that, but it'll mean that the relationship between fell well and and daish isn't really a relationship because one signing players, the other isn't going to play well, time will tell. Like, what we do know about daish is he's incredibly conservative when it comes to changing teams and changing. You know, we've seen this time and again where things have obviously not been working and it's taken him two or three games to make a change, because he's really, really resistant to doing that and I think that is a flaw for him. I think, if you look at the, the best managers actually they they change things very quickly and very decisively when they're not working, and I think he's it is a weakness.
Speaker 2:What did that.
Speaker 1:Now the thing is, though, austin sorry to say that is, that he may be forced to change against Spurs because we don't have a recognised right back. You can argue about my Colgate, but I get, I, if we, if, in a world where Ashley Young doesn't get sent off right and he's available, I guarantee you he rolls out the same team, guarantee you.
Speaker 1:He might be forced to change. No, I mean I can say it's a statement. In my opinion he rolls out the same team right. He might be forced to change because we don't have a recognised right back, so he might have to go to three at the back, but that's the only thing that will change. Like look, I like Sean Dice. Is it your view, ben, that given his way, sean Dice would not play and die all Lindstrom for the whole season?
Speaker 3:Yes, no, not the whole season. I think that's kind of silly. You won't play them against Spurs.
Speaker 1:You won't play them against.
Speaker 2:Spurs Go on the record now and say you won't play them against Spurs. I'm just trying to get my head around what Ben just said. He said you guarantee a hypothetical situation. Yeah, absolutely. That's exactly what I said. That's not going to get possible.
Speaker 1:My point is like I like Sean Dyche. I think he's perfectly good as an Everton manager. No-transcript play Lindstrom and play and die and play this and change the way. It's just not going to happen, he's. It will astonish me not in the slightest if, on Saturday, we roll out with exactly the same team with Mason Holgate playing as a defensive right back. Not, it won't be surprised at all and lots of people will be outraged and say it's terrible and awful. And my question, my point to them will be have you watched Sean Dyche at any point in his entire career? And what? If you have? Why are you surprised by the fact he will be conservative?
Speaker 1:because that's how he wants to win football games and that's fine gentlemen, tune into Ben's Twitter feed on Saturday for more on this topic, which there will be. All right, we're going to move on. We're talking about transfers a little bit. We saw in my mind well, I say we, I can't speak for anyone else In my mind I kind of put out my head the idea we'd sign anyone else. Well, I think this morning we, this morning we're recording this.
Speaker 1:On Thursday evening, uk time Ling with Kieran Trippier today, you know, obviously, you know ageing international right back. But you know free kick. You know wonder kid, ben, I'll come to you first. What's your take on? Like that, good idea, bad idea? Does he still play Ashley Young? Anyway, tell us what you think. I mean it's a very Sean Dyche idea and I don't mean that as like a joke. I mean like, look, kieran trippy has experienced he, sean dyche is a big fan of him, he's been on the record before. There's a big fan of him. He provides cover in two positions. He's probably better than any starting right back we have. He provides cover at left back, as gareth southgate, you know, would love to tell you. He can play both sides. Like you know, it makes sense.
Speaker 1:My issue with it is that we only have two domestic loan spots. We've used one for Jack Harrison already and we're now talking about using one to sign a fourth right back, which is you can argue about which order they go in, but he would be our fourth right back. And the third thing is I think it says a lot about how we've used nathan patterson. Yeah, um, because I think and we talked about this on the podcast when we're talking about priority areas and I said right back and sort of counterpoint, which was fair, was well, we've got three right backs already, why do you need another one? Because in sean dyche's mind, I don't think he's, I don't think he thinks we've got three right backs, I think he's got two right backs and Nathan Patterson, who he doesn't trust.
Speaker 1:I could see it happening because I think it's a very dice. Signing Trippier is a good player, organised, always going to be in the right place, will play for the shirt and do all those things, and Will will be a better right back certainly than Ashley Young starting there, probably better than Seamus Coleman starting there. But if you look at the areas of the team that we need to improve and the areas where we need more depth and more creativity, using your second domestic loan spot on a 34 year old right back doesn't strike you as the most exciting thing in the world. But see my previous point Sean Dyche is not the man who is going to do the most exciting thing in the world, so that would be my view. I'd be perfectly happy if it happened, but I don't think it's where we should be using that priority to sign somebody. Yeah, dad, what do you think about that? Because it's a good point, ben, you make about.
Speaker 2:Yeah it would be pragmatic, wouldn't it? I mean it would be pragmatic Probably. I mean we could stay in the Premier League this season, not for focus reasons. I think it'll be a pragmatic signing for one year alone. I agree with Patterson. He hasn't had a role in it, but he's still got members' age. He's got plenty of time to come on. I think I keep thinking who are the three right backs? I mean you obviously count as Ashley Young Coleman Patterson.
Speaker 1:actually, yeah, that's Ashley.
Speaker 3:Young Coleman.
Speaker 1:Patterson, actually, yeah, I think that's right. I think it's primarily how. I mean where Ashley Young played for his last season at Villa was almost exclusively.
Speaker 2:And you've got the cover. He would provide the cover on the left as well. So the money's not coming out of my pocket. So I'd say, if he's available and he's willing to come, and ever something, they can afford him. I think he can only improve the squad and reduce the chances of us being relegated. So on that basis I'd say go for it.
Speaker 1:The thing that you say about Patton's age is Patton is 23 now. He's not like he's not some 19, 20 year old. Do you think he's 20?
Speaker 2:Yeah, but just on that, Coleman, this will be Coleman's last year. If they do get Trippier, I'm guessing it'll be a one-year loan, so there is an opportunity for Paterson. I think what you, dyche, doesn't seem to like him. All I'm saying is signing Trippier doesn't close the door on Paterson. Maybe for this season, it might not. Maybe, maybe not in the future. And he seems quite happy I'm not seeing him moaning about not being picked. Maybe he recognises himself. He's got things to learn, I don't know.
Speaker 1:Well, that's a fascinating thing because you'd think if Dice doesn't fancy him, ok, I think fans we know nothing. Players we've seen play a lot, teams we've seen play a lot. I think football fans get a bad rap at you. I think the average fan actually understands more about the game than most commentators would want to admit, because we watch a lot of football and you just can't not absorb some stuff. So actually when people say, oh, you know, fans don't know anything, I think that's nonsense. But when you've got players who are coming through, who we've seen for 10 minutes, I really don't think we know anything about how good nathan patterson is, but we just like the idea of young people being players being played, that's it. If daishi has made his mind up on him, why aren't we selling him like? Why are we? Why we got this guy in the squad? Still, if the manager is going to pick essentially anybody except him at right back, then you know what's the point I was hoping in the um.
Speaker 3:I said during the summer I was hoping that he would be a, a player that dash would sort of coach, in the way that michael lenko has been coached to improve his defensive capabilities. Now he's not played in the first game, um, you know, I still hold hope that he would be someone that we'll see play more and more this season. But on just something, on the trippier point, I think he'd be someone that we'll see play more and more this season. But on the Trippier point, I think he'd be comfortably our best right back if we were to sign him, and I think he definitely is trustworthy. This is why Gareth Southgate raised him so highly. But he's a very technically gifted player and technically he would be one of our best players. He's a really good player, k. He would be one of our best players, like he's a really good player kieran trippier, not just because of his positional sense and defensive capabilities. He's a really good technical player. He can pick, he can put, he can put a cross on a five pence piece and you know we saw against the in the semi-final against croatia in the European Championships, world Cup, sorry thanks. He's obviously a free kick specialist as well.
Speaker 3:So to say he'd just be signed because it's a sort of a dice-style signing I don't think I'm not saying that You're saying that, ben. I'm just saying that there's much more to him than his reliability. I think he'd be a really smart signing if we can get him, for you know, obviously he's reportedly on about 140 grand a week, so obviously we would be. You know, we'd have to take a huge chunk away from his wages there to look to get him. But yeah, I think it'd be good to get him. And then, you know, hopefully we can work with patterson on the training pitch to improve what dice quite clearly believes to be some quite significant um flaws in his game. I'd say two things.
Speaker 1:One, the the other reason why a trip here signing makes sense is sean dice love scoring goals from set pieces and you will find few better set piece takers in the premier league than kieranier, both in terms of corners and free kicks, so he fits the style in that sense as well. The same thing, just on the Mikalenko point, I think I agree Mikalenko has come on leaps and bounds as a full-back under Dyche. But I think the difference between Mikalenko and Patterson is that Mikalenko is naturally a defensive full-back. Between Mikalenko and Paterson is that Mikalenko is naturally a defensive fullback and Paterson is naturally an attacking fullback. So I think Dyche has taken the things that Mikalenko was good at and made them better. I think what he might be I'm not suggesting Dyche is struggling, but what I think the bigger challenge is is okay, you've got an attacking right back who we forget, but was one of the first names on the team sheet and was very good under Lampard in the games where we, you know, where we played well, a lot of that went through Patterson. I think the challenge that, whether it's Patterson has this challenge or Dyche has this challenge of fitting him in, is that he obviously doesn't trust him defensively, you know to, to play him in a four, as, as is starting right back, he obviously is. And then you know you can have a debate about can he be much worse than Ashley Young? I would say no, but again this comes back to what Baish values. Yeah, it's exactly the kind of thing you can see happening and I don't mind.
Speaker 1:All right, we're going to talk a little bit now about, uh, this takeover thing, which I was I didn't expect us to be talking about this week. Honestly, I thought I put that back in the back of my mind. I thought we wouldn't have to deal with any mishiri shenanigans. But as of you know what is it. A couple of days ago, or yesterday even maybe, the guardian ran a story about how john texter who owns 40 of crystal palace%, I think is apparently going to complete his takeover of Everton. You know this week, which is the kind of story that is put out by somebody, right? That's what you've got to bear in mind when you read these things.
Speaker 1:You know, journalists are not omniscient. They don't know what happened. They write these things because someone gave them some information. So I assume this came from Texxter's camp and there's some reason why he wanted to generate that momentum. Uh, or maybe it came from mishiria, who can say um, but like your dad, I'll start with you. What's your take on this? And, particularly like I, I don't even know what question to ask you is I because, is it? We're talking about being bought by a guy who, according to the Premier League rules, currently can't buy us. So it's a very Everton situation to find yourself in. But you know how are you feeling about that? I guess yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean it's just the fourth one. I mean my view is surely to God, one of these is going to come. There can't be another one that goes west. Yeah, he was supposed to be touring the new ground with Mishiri, but apparently Mishiri went on his own. So where that story came from?
Speaker 3:I don't know.
Speaker 2:I mean he does have an experience of mean he's, he's. He just haven't experienced the football. He's got experience of Premier League football. I don't think, if it does come through, it could be worse. I mean, anything's got to be better than Mishiri, as we've said, I did for night, and he's got to get rid of this. His shareholding Crystal Palace, as we know, and there doesn't seem to be any movement on that. So where this rumor came from, that you know it's going to be imminently completed, is I don't know. I read somewhere else, though, that they're talking about the end of january. Which makes which, which does make does make more sense. But just fingers crossed that this one, you know, does work its way through. And I just say, because of his experience, um, both in european football and the premiership, um, I think it'd be okay.
Speaker 1:Only time will tell probably has his eyes open the thing. Sorry, there we go.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I can see.
Speaker 3:I mean, first of all, what is really encouraging is that you know it's obviously driven by the stadium, is that we're obviously a very, we're a price asset because of the situation. You know, the situation we find ourselves in with Moshiri being, you know, very, very cheap to sort of to get out of the club. But you know, we obviously had Triple Seven and then obviously we've had the Fry King group and now we've got the Crystal Palace bloke. So I mean, if it carries on much longer, I'm suspecting seeing something like Everton announce interest from a takeaway conglomerate led by farhad noshiri, how long, how long have you been waiting to make that I've?
Speaker 3:been making that joke for one minute when I was I thought it when dad was talking um, um, yeah, the thing is we're going to get sold like we're not going to go into we're obviously not going to go into administration. We are going to get sold to someone and we're going to get sold to someone who can see the enormous, the real gravity that the ground will provide for us and the positives that that will bring. So it's a difficult process because of bad economic decisions that we've made, particularly around seven, triple seven, um, so it's going to happen.
Speaker 1:it's just a case of who and when the yeah, the thing, the thing that worries me about this right is we've two things. One, the story is we've given an exclusivity to somebody who can't buy us, like literally can't buy us right now. That was my main concern I have to. And two, and this is the second concern, the club have never, never, announced that we've given them exclusivity, the so in every. I went back and checked this. Previous one of these takeovers, there was a press release on the everton website confirming that we'd entered into a period of exclusivity for with 777 and with the freaking group for discussions over sailor club. They've not done that with john texter. So either we haven't given him an exclusivity and all of this is a attempt to drive forward a prize or we have, but mashiri's done it. I don't know in the background, not officially, like it just doesn't.
Speaker 3:Nothing about this feels right nothing about this feels like like we are, like the press do get things wrong and they make stuff up.
Speaker 1:They do. But if you have a story that said Everton FC have given exclusivity to Jon Textor and it was incorrect, you would have a club press officer calling up the jersey and say, ok, that's wrong. Yeah, it's wrong. They would check it right.
Speaker 3:They would call the jersey and say it's incorrect. And the press team would say no, it's not.
Speaker 1:It doesn't smell right. We've given exclusivity but not announced it, and we've given exclusivity to somebody who, quite literally, literally isn't allowed to buy us right now. Literally isn't allowed. How can you exclusively be negotiating with someone who can't? It's like me trying to sell a car I don't own. It's like here's the yeah. Yeah, you know, you've just, I think you've been, I think you've, you're hitting the nail on the head. I've said the thought.
Speaker 1:Actually, we, you know, we, we believed we talked a little bit with the freaking group about how they pulled out, but they did that with roma and it's a tactic. And if you were trying to force those guys back to the table, because you know the freaking group basically could have I mean, I'm hypothesizing all of this, but you know it makes sense to me that they, the freaking group, will go. I'm just going to wait because we can give these, lend these guys, some cash so they don't get nothing terrible happens. Um, we'll wait. See what this, this 777 america thing is kind of messy and complicated. We'll wait six months see if the situation is any different. If you're mashiri and you're like mashiri is like I mean, we talked about this before farhad mashiri is in the shit big time in financially with everton or whoever is actually has the money. You know, be it mashiri or someone else. This is exactly what the kind of trick you would pull if you were trying to force, move someone else to not wait right, and you might say to uh, john texter, I'll look after you down the road and I don't mean that in any kind of way that implies anything illegal. It wouldn't say, but like, maybe there's a favor done here which is, uh, yeah, we'll play clubs do this with players all the time.
Speaker 1:Everton did it with wayne rooney. When we sold into man united, we got newcastle to to. You know, we'll play clubs do this with players all the time. Everton did it with Wayne Rooney. When we sold it to man United, we got Newcastle to to you know, this is all in what's his name's book, alan Myers's book. We got, you know, newcastle to fake interest, to drive the price up, basically Like they wouldn't. They were never really interested.
Speaker 1:So I think you know I can see that being, I think, ben, I think you know I can see that being, I think. Then I think you're right. I think there's something fishy about this. It's not what it seems, and it's by somebody for some reason, and that would play. That would make sense that you have all these stories about promising about exclusivity without official confirmation of exclusivity. Yeah, because once you officially confirm exclusivity you then can't talk to anyone else, obviously, because that's it. But if you tell everybody that you've done exclusivity but never actually formally do it, you can still talk to the freaking group right like so I think you, I think that's a smart.
Speaker 1:I think that's a smart suggestion of what might be going on here, because it just isn't. It just there's something not right about saying, hey, we're about to sell our football club to a man who can't buy a football, you can't buy it. I mean, my first thought was he can't buy it and you would never. If you're him, you would and you've got to sell 45 of crystal palace. You would never put yourself in a position of being a false seller, deliberately ever. Because he can, he could want, he could want to buy everton as much as we do. If we had that kind of money, we wouldn't do it. It's too much. You know, if he loses 20% of the value of his Crystal Palace shares because he's a forced seller, you know, because he's done a deal where that makes no sense to me.
Speaker 1:So yeah, something fishy this way comes. What a stunning surprise in the world of Farhad Moshiri that things are not what they seem. Alright, excuse me while I cough Anything else on anything else before we talk about the Spurs game, as we talked about a little bit already, but talk about it properly, no, alright? Okay, we're going to do predictions. Alright, let's do this. This will be fun. Let's do predictions and predicted changes to the team as well, because that's.
Speaker 1:Let's see we're going to get some stuff on the record. We'll see how we go. Dan, I'm going to come to you first Score prediction and be on the right back, which you'll have to change. Will Dice change the team?
Speaker 2:I'm going to go for. I want to say 1-1, but I think 2-1 for Spurs, who were unlucky the other night but they didn't absolutely batter Leicester Changes. I'd like to see Ndai. I'd like to see Endai. I'd like to see Endai play.
Speaker 1:I'd like to see Decorey come back.
Speaker 2:Come back as in drop deeper. No, no, to come back, play deeper and to replace Garner. I think there's a bit of a liability and I hope we pay Kieran Trippier back. We'd have to watch our skates on if it's Thursday night.
Speaker 1:It is possible. Still, if they sign him in the next 12 hours, then it would be possible. Adam, what do you think?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'd agree with Dad's scoreline. I think we're going to get beat, which is nothing to really necessarily worry about. And I mean Dave said earlier that Tarkovsky is a doubt for this and Brantway is still out as well, so I think there might be a forced change there. So it's, where do you think Mason Holgate can do the least damage? Central defence or right back? I mean, I don't even know who you'd play If you play Mason Holgate right back. Who do you even play in the central?
Speaker 2:defence O'Brien.
Speaker 3:I completely forgot that he existed so did Sean Dyche yeah so I think I think if you say that he's a doubt, these things usually are pretty witty way of saying that he's unlikely to play. So, yeah, I, you know pretty much a way of saying that he's unlikely to unlike his place. So, yeah, I think um brian are coming for um for tokowski and um, you know, I'll get play right back and then, uh, yeah, I agree with that. I hope, I hope to see um the corey replaced completely with, not like literally, I don't know, I can't say anything.
Speaker 1:I can't say a lot.
Speaker 2:His life is going to be mad.
Speaker 1:He's going to go pick his kids up from school and be like I'm your dad now. Every aspect of his life, I've completely replaced Abdelaziz.
Speaker 3:I feel like he gets into bed with his wife.
Speaker 1:Do you know, like in soap operas where they just change the actor?
Speaker 3:and everybody just pretends.
Speaker 1:You could get around registration rules by just having him put the Tens shirt on and go. Is that Abdelhaid Akkari? What?
Speaker 3:do you mean I identify as Abdelhaid Akkari? Maybe?
Speaker 1:that's what Chelsea are going to do. They're just going to get them all to dress up as each other, and they don't have 45 players. They've actually got 21. You're just confused, but you know 88 boots.
Speaker 3:Sorry, adam, carry on yeah, so Ndai for De Corvallet as well, and I think we'll keep the same central midfield as Brighton.
Speaker 1:All right, I think we're going to lose as well. I think we'll lose 1-0. And I think, actually I think Ben is strategically wrong about Dyche and these new players, but tactically right in that I think he will name an unchanged team for this game because his aim is to defend in this game and he's not going to. I think in the next home game. I think he'll change it because I think he will see that differently. But I think for a spurs away, I think Holgate will come in. There'll be a change at centre-half if Tarkovsky's injured. Beyond that it will same team, which is disappointing. But I suspect in the short term you're right about how he's going to approach it. All right, anything else for anything else. Before we wrap up, I'd like to do my prediction. Oh sorry, did I skip you?
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, you did.
Speaker 1:So sorry, please, ben, tell us your prediction for Spurs we're going to lose 2-0 and he's going to put Mason Holgate in it right back and change. Nothing else, apart from if Tarkovsky's injured Even if Tarkovsky's injured, he's not going to change.
Speaker 3:He's not going to change.
Speaker 1:No, because like, and seriously like, to the point. It spurs away. Right, he's not going to make attacking changes, it spurs away, he's just not going to. It's not his style. He'll want to set up with this team who are familiar with the system and familiar with the pressing.
Speaker 3:And I can understand the logic of that.
Speaker 1:But that's why he's not going to change. He's not going to drop to Correa. He'll play the same front four. He'll play the same midfield two. Who, by all accounts? I mean, I didn't actually watch the game alone and see the highlights. Apparently, tim was very good, so maybe there was a bright spot, there's a bright spot there, but you know, spurs away is not the time for him to go. Do you know what, lads? You're right, I'm going to adopt a more attacking approach to the game. Like it's just not, he's not going to do it.
Speaker 3:It's worth just to finish off on Tim. He was absolutely brilliant against Brighton. You know he sort of I think, dad, you know, dad, you made the point in the game. He sort of he waned in the last 20 minutes or so because you know he was getting tired, wasn't he? But he was comfortably our best player. You know he broke the play up about at least four or five times. You know intercepting, making really good tackles, and he looked really composed on the ball as well.
Speaker 3:You know someone well beyond his years, um, you know there was one point in the in the um in the first half where he gets the ball inside our heart, inside our penalty area. He's getting closed down by two brighton players and he just dinks it in front of one and then just passes it out calmly to michaelenko um to set us off on an attack. And dad and I just looked at each other like god, we seem to have a really good player here and obviously we know he's not going to play that well all the time. You know there's lots of factors that go into debuts, particularly for young players looking better than they are, and he's obviously not that good. He's not going to be that good all the time. But even if he's said, you know 80% of what we saw, we've got a really really good player player there and I think you know it looks really. It'll be really exciting to see how he progresses this season.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he looked, he looked excellent and it's, you know, the injury thing is, is a Dad you made it alone is a good point, you know, because not only obviously, yeah, missing Brantwaite, missing Coleman, you know, missing James Garner as well, who you know I don't know whether he would have played or not. Maybe he would have played instead of Garner game, maybe, but you know he's obviously a miss Garner would play right back on Saturday if he was fit. You know that would not be a terrible idea, no, that'd be fine.
Speaker 3:That's where he played for the.
Speaker 1:U21s. That'd be fine, but that could be like to our earlier conversation. That also makes the trip here signing, because you've got three right backs and you've got James Garner who is emergency break last fourth right back, so you start to look very overloaded in one part of the pitch. It's quite thin. Anyway, I would honestly play If Tarkovsky was fit. I would honestly play if Tarkovsky was fit. I would honestly play Michael Keane right back ahead of Mason Holgate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think Keane's a good technical footballer. You know. He's a better in many ways. It's sort of a strength for him and he's defending sometimes. There was a moment in the first half where he made a clearance against Brighton, where it looked quite good because there was a shot which maybe Pickford was going to save, but Keane was just in the right spot just to clear it. He was sort of on the six yard line and then you look back at a replay and he was playing three Brighton players on side. He was completely out of line with the rest of our defense. So you know and not intentionally not oh, I know exactly what's going to happen here. He's going to shoot and it's going to go exactly there. He'd screwed up and just happened to be stood in the right place. So I think you know I would maybe, you know, put O'Brien in and play Keane right back. But I suspect we'll see good old Mason Hall get it If we're talking about what we'd actually do.
Speaker 1:I would actually like to see him switch formation entirely and play three at the back if you want to get around the right back thing. You, you play, you play O'Brien, you play some variation of O'Brien Keane, tarkovsky or Mikalenko as your left centre back, and then you play McNeil and Harrison or Mikalenko and Harrison as your wing backs, and then you, you play your normal four, you play Decorey behind the striker and your two midfielders and that gets you around the fact that you don't have a right back because you just play wing backs. But again, see previous comments, sean Dyche won't do that. Yeah, he's not going to do that. I mean, the most interesting thing about will be to enjoy the meltdown when we A plays the same team and B we lose 2-0 and everyone starts fratting Like we're going to be fine, like we're going to stay up, we're probably going to finish like 14th, 15th, comfortably clear of relegation, but it's not going to be fun.
Speaker 1:There's quite a lot of pressure. I was just thinking about this. I think we probably will lose to Spurs and then actually there is quite a lot of pressure on that Bournemouth game Because you really don't. And that is the problem, that is the naivety around this strategy, which sort of was always allardyce's problem as well. I think my dice is much better managing allardyce but you can back yourself by sort of taking these games and going, oh, it doesn't really matter, you can. It doesn't take into account the overall feel, the dynamic, the mood, you know. Whereas if we went to Spurs and went for it, not in a silly way, but we did that last season, though, if you remember, we should have won that.
Speaker 1:It's been bothering me all episode. I didn't want to do it while you were talking, I wonder why you kept looking at it. I thought you were just taking in my amazing points. Did you make any?
Speaker 3:We should have beaten Spurs. Last season we drew 2-2 against them.
Speaker 1:Remember Dan Juman blazed over in the last few minutes.
Speaker 3:We absolutely battered them for the last 10 minutes.
Speaker 1:We're perfectly capable of going on Saturday and beating Spurs. We're just going to do it in Dyche's way. If we're going to do it, that's the reality. Would I be stunned if we beat Spurs 1-0 on Saturday? No, I wouldn't be stunned, I'd be pleasantly surprised. But we're not going to do it by playing you know, all these attacking players and changing the style. If we win, we're going to do it Daish's way, because that's how he's always played, that is. That is who he is and who he always will be.
Speaker 2:I don't think there's a sorry one of the strangest sort of a supporter who wrote on somewhere or other. He said well, if Everton hadn't won those four games, we'd have been at the bottom, and I thought, yes, but I think there is a realm.
Speaker 2:We did have two purple patches, one at the start of the season, one at the end of the season. We had that two months where it was 14 games. It's awful. Now, you know, we're hoping that we get a more consistent performance throughout the year, because the chances of having two purple patches is the same this season.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and to Austin's point, you become very heavily reliant on having those type of purple patches. If your approach is well, let's just go into this one to try not to lose. Right, and that's the nature of the beast.
Speaker 3:Right, that's just go into this one to try not to lose right, and that's like that's the nature of the beast right.
Speaker 1:That's why Dyche is who he is. That's why David Moyes is who he is. This is why Samuel Ades is who he is. Nobody hires these managers because they want them to play expansive, progressive, attacking football where you win, where you can score four goals a game. You hire them because they're organised and they're defensive and they have a plan and they're tactically sound and then you win enough games to stay up. That's why that's their job and for us right now, that's what the job has to be. But I think I'd be really interested to see if you had another season similar to last season, where we had, you know, a purple patch or two but then were pretty dross for large parts of it Stayed up. You know, finished 12th, 13th, 14th, whatever Moved into the stadium. I wonder how long the fan base is happy to live with that style.
Speaker 3:That's what I think is going to happen. I predict that Because I think Evertonians are naturally a fan base in general that they want to see their own homegrown players do well and play first and foremost, which I think is why we grossly overestimate their, their capabilities see tom davis, for example um, but I think in general, the fan base they want, you know, they want to see attacking, attacking football, and I think they all understand that that is not necessarily something we're going to be able to provide for the next, you know, this season or um, this season and over the last few seasons, because we've just been old, we've just been survival mode for the past, like you know, two seasons. But I, this is what I predict. I'm not saying this is right, obviously, I don't think it's right at all, you're not going to guarantee it?
Speaker 3:no, but what I think is going to happen is um dyche will make us comfortably better. He'll get us mid-table this season and then we might get halfway through this next season and then people might start going we're doing alright here but I really don't start to like the football. And then he gets towards the end of the season and people will start going. We've come mid-table again. I would like to see more attacking football next season and then people will go.
Speaker 1:This is not happening and I want him to be gone and that's what's going to happen, and by that point you're in the new ground, the finances are better and you have more opportunities.
Speaker 2:I'd say more than that. My guess would be that there's one more season and he does have his shortcomings. I accept all of that. They'll have one more season. We'll go into the new stadium. It'll be seen as new owners, new stars. I think of being your manager. Yeah, I think you're right. I agree.
Speaker 1:I mean the sort of case in point and I hate to do, I don't told you so but and the match for Aston Villa in that game of the weekend playing ball-carrying progressive forward front-footed in a system that was designed to reward him In a much better team.
Speaker 2:In a better team. Yeah, agreed.
Speaker 1:In a much better team. But I think to the point we've made before about why he didn't work for us is that, tactically, Deich sets his team up to play a certain way and Arnaud's skill set wasn't suited to playing that way and that's why he was and that's why, under a much better manager, a better team agreed he just looks like an elite midfielder and Arna is.
Speaker 3:And Arna is, unfortunately, the casualty of Everton Football Club, being the absolute basket case that it has been over the past three or four years, because he was signed to be a progressive ball carrying midfielder under Lampard who wanted to play more attacking, open, flowing football than John Dyche plays, and that's. Dyche then inherits players that he really likes, like Abdoulaye Dekore, who you tell when Abdoulaye jump and he says how am I? Yeah, you know. But then you've got players like Inanna, who are undoubtedly our best technical player, but then he doesn't fit the system. We did make money on him, though, so it wasn't like, yeah, we did. But also you've got to think more broadly, like, yes, you put Inanna in that team, but then you think you know he's obviously making a judgment there and we can argue hypothetically to the cows go home about whether that would be the right thing about. You know the the broader ramifications of that, and does that have an overall detrimental effect on the tactical setup of the?
Speaker 2:team, which is his most important chairman, tim played the same role, uh role Onona played. If Onona had had the same impact and I know it's only early days yet but if Onona had had the same impact that Tim had on Saturday, consistently throughout the season, I wouldn't have been disappointed if he'd have been sold. But he continually disappointed me. Don't forget Tim and him. Exactly the same role. And he was far more progressive when he got the ball, but he created many more chances than Anona did.
Speaker 3:Anona was like that in his first few games because we saw his debut against Brentford. Remember when he played against Brentford we thought, bloody hell, we've got a player in.
Speaker 1:He should have had two assists against Fulham in the first game.
Speaker 2:What happened to that player? Too many of us burst in too.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well who was the manager?
Speaker 2:He's not listening to us now look, yeah, no, he's stopped.
Speaker 1:But the answer to what happened that player is I'm listening. Sean Dice didn't want him to play that way.
Speaker 3:Yeah, genuinely, I'm not being facetious.
Speaker 1:Dice doesn't want his centre-up fielders to play that way, so that's what happened, but Tim played that way. No, no, no, he didn't play lung-busting runs and breaking through the centre of the midfield.
Speaker 2:No, but he was in this productive and produced many more forward opportunities, in my view, on Arnaud than he did.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's interesting to watch back some of the games from early last season. If you watch the Fulham game, arnaud should have had three assists in that game because he plays three great passes that Neil Mopé and I think Donovan Calvert-Lewin miss. So I think Donovan Calvert-Lewin miss Like. So I think Narnia was a victim of finishing being crap as well as anything else.
Speaker 1:And we never know. All right, well, look, we'll see you on the other side of the Spurs game, which is in a day and a half. As we sit here, we'll be back next week before we We've got an EFL Cup game randomly next week. I was just looking at the fixtures for playing doncaster on tuesday, uh, and then bournemouth uh weekend and the saturday after. So sometime between, uh, probably between the doncaster game and the bournemouth game back. So thanks for listening. Uh. Follow us wherever you get your podcasts. Subscribe on apple podcast, we're on spotify, all those places. Tell a blue supporting friend, uh, that they can come and share the misery with us. Stay well, stay safe, and we'll see you next week.