Blues Brothers Everton Podcast
Blues Brothers Everton Podcast
Transfer Window - The Good and the Bad
We sit down to look at Everton's transfer business so far, and speculate about what other deals we can do. Plus the latest on the takeover (or not) and a preview of the new season.
Welcome to episode 75 of the Blues Brothers Everton podcast. It's good to be back as we crater towards the start of the season. It's a very Everton-. It's good to be back as we crater towards I don't know why I'm saying crater, crater towards the start of the season. It's a very Everton optimistic way of looking at it. It's like a plane crash. That's how I'm feeling. It's been great not thinking about Everton.
Speaker 2:But here we are.
Speaker 1:We're back. Three of us are in the same place. Myself, Ben and Adam are in Florida. Andy, are you at home? Andy, I am at home in.
Speaker 1:South Yorkshire. Yes, excellent, so everyone's here, so it's good to be back. What have we got until pre-season Two weeks? We got Saturday, so we're recording this on Wednesday. So we've got about 10 days. We're recording this on Thursday. We're recording this on Wednesday. So we've got about 10 days. We're recording this on Thursday. We're recording this on Thursday. I'm alone. I definitely know what day it is. I definitely didn't have to look on Spotify to figure out what episode it was. Everything's under control. We're definitely not researching the players that we've signed.
Speaker 2:In real time.
Speaker 1:Come for the jokes, stay for the diligent preparation. Here's what we're going to do. We're going to talk about the transfer window mostly, and then we'll get a little bit maybe into the first game. I don't know, but we'll probably do another Bob before then. So first things first. We're going to talk about the incoming. First, we've signed five players, which is, you know, I mean credit to Everton. I guess generally They've done the business, everton, I guess generally they've done the business. So Ben is going to read to us, because some of us may not be totally all over the facts uh, which the players we have signed?
Speaker 2:so.
Speaker 1:Ben give us the list, the players we have signed. We have signed. Jake O'Brien, who is a Irish centre-back from Lyon, bought somewhere in the region of 20 million pounds. Uh, ilman Ndai, who is a sort of number 10 or can play on the wing up front, who is from Marseille, for somewhere in the region of £16 million, who was previously at Sheffield United, we have signed.
Speaker 2:Tim Oroganum, that's pretty, I don't know.
Speaker 1:That's not going to be the worst pronunciation you're going to hear out of an Everton fan of that name this season. I can tell you that I'd love to sit in the Gladys Street and try and hear people. What's the chant going to be?
Speaker 2:Timmy, timmy.
Speaker 1:Timmy yeah, exactly who we have signed from Aston Villa in our absolutely not PSR-motivated swap with Lewis Dobbin. We've signed Jesper Lindström on loan from Napoli, who is a winger, danish winger, who was your sort of classic Everton reclamation project, was very good in the Bundesliga. I think Eintracht Frankfurt is that who he played for, yeah, and then he moved to Napoli and then he went to Napoli and it hasn't really worked out. And then the fifth one is we've got Jack Harrison back on loan, who obviously was with us last season. So they are the five incomings.
Speaker 1:Any immediate thoughts? We'll talk about all of them, but any immediate kind of thoughts on any of those players from anybody that you've been thinking about? I mean my. It's interesting to me because I think he was someone that we'd gone after last season when he went to Marseille and we're obviously interested in. So the fact that we've gone backing for him and been able to get a season is good.
Speaker 1:The other thing is I think it actually impacts more than just where he will play, because I think there is a view that Decore is not the right player anymore for that number 10 spot behind the striker, because if you look at who he's gone after in terms of Ndai and Lindstrom.
Speaker 1:We've gone after attacking players who can also play in that position. So I wonder if what you end up with is decoray playing slightly further back. But and die is interesting to me, o'brien is really interesting because there was quite a competition for his signature, so apparently colman had quite a big impact on the fact they ended up with us. But if you talk to, you know the, the, the ex-scouting community, o'brien is like a very well-regarded player. I don't know anything about him, but people who follow this stuff and take this stuff seriously are very impressed with him as a player and think he will be a really great fit and also helps us in a position where you wouldn't want to be going into the season with Michael Keane and Mason Holgate as your third and fourth centre back, really. So I think they would be the two I would call out. Lindstrom scored a nice free kick in the pre-season.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's only played very well in that game.
Speaker 1:I couldn't watch it because Everton couldn't stream it. I don't know. I figured something that would be trivial to stream and everything would fuck it up. They'd fuck up recording this podcast. They would actually which we've thus far? We only did it once. We only did it once. We did it once, but one out of 75 is not bad. I would take that.
Speaker 1:Adam, what are your thoughts on those in general? And then I want to dive into a couple in a bit more detail and see what we think the implication is. Yeah, a couple of more, a bit more detailed, to see what we think the implications. Yeah, um, yeah, so we also. We also said before the uh in like cover podcast ago about that. So what we need I think it was our season review. We all said how we've got a particular way of playing and the core, and then ben mentioned the corey. Playing a bit further back was interesting because him playing behind the striker is not from a creative sense, it's from a triggering press, yeah, of sense, and getting making late runs into the bottom yeah, that's the end of crossing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so there's clearly been a different approach to uh, with a bit more creativity and a bit more flair, with the signing of lynchstrom and um and then die and obviously jack harrison, who you know what's he got that for it, it's just sort of something last season and Dye likes it. Because he likes it, he obviously trusts him as a player. So there's obviously been quite a shift towards there. And then I was a bit I mean, I won't go into too much detail, but I was a bit surprised that the O'Brien signing only because, you know, defence was our one of our best assets last season and helped us stay up Having that Karkovski and Branthwaite.
Speaker 1:Now, you know it could be that that's because Branthwaite, when we're looking at Branthwaite, is going to leave at some point. Whether it's going to be likely this summer now, but next summer, you know more, very, very likely to be next summer. So that could be the thinking there that they've just, you know more very, very likely to be next summer. So that could be the thinking there that they've just, you know, picked other clubs to a direct replacement early.
Speaker 1:So yeah, um it's interesting because you know you can sort of bend to your point about he, I mean, but he holgate, mason holgate, and I don't want to be unkind to the guy. He's not for me a premier league, standard footballer, I agree. Right, you know he's. I think you sort of demonstrated that at Sheffield United where I think he had a drop down a level in terms of you know, the average quality of the players, but still was not really there. I mean, I know he played a bunch, but you know, so you can see. Obviously I assume the intention is to offload him. Keane's interesting because Sean Dush likes Michael Keane, I like Michael Keane. Actually, I like Michael Keane as your fourth centre-back, right, he's a perfectly good squad player, perfectly happy with him. I wouldn't feel comfortable or confident if you know Brantway or Tarkovsky got, you know, injured for a longer term. I wouldn't feel that great about Keane starting for half a season, right, longer term, I wouldn't feel that great about Keane starting for half a season. Perfectly good, serviceable fourth centre-back, no problem.
Speaker 1:And we've lost Godfrey's Donald. Yeah, we've lost Godfrey's Donald, but we can come on to that. Andy, any reaction from you? I want to talk about our attacking approach, but any general thoughts on those signings before we do that?
Speaker 2:The general thoughts for me on those signings before we do that. The general thoughts for me are that it's all remarkably positive. The last pod we did that we discussed sort of potential players that we could afford to lose and areas of the squad that we need to strengthen. Bear in mind the financial risk constraints that the club are operating within, trying to undo the lavish overspend of the last few years. I think the club have actually done a really, really good job in terms of recruiting in areas that we needed to strengthen.
Speaker 2:I like O'Brien Again. I heard the name before but didn't know a great deal else about him. But it's good to know that there were sort of other clubs in the running for him. And I agree with Adam, that's clearly a pre-emptive strike with a view of losing brand weight, ideally not in this transfer window, potentially later on in six or 12 months' time. Ideally not in this transfer window, potentially later on in six or 12 months' time. And then we'll talk about the attacking options in a moment. But one thing I mentioned about that is my understanding is that Lindstrom could function on the right and that might mean Harrison might play more as a number 10. That's one idea I've heard sort of mooted round, so I don't know what your thoughts are on that as a potential slight change of the formation up at the top end of the pitch.
Speaker 1:I think Indi is very likely to be the number 10 for the second strike because that's sort of his role. I think Harrison will probably see him play less because I think I imagine he will probably play McNeil albeit I do think McNeil is actually better in the centre, but I think in Dyers he will likely play ahead of him. I think our front three behind an ace striker would be McNeil on the left and Dyer in the mid-string I think that would be behind an ace striker would be McNeil on the left and Dye in a linchpin. I think that would be the way that it would sort of go.
Speaker 1:It's good to have options as well, absolutely, yeah, we got away with massively last season. We just didn't have any depth. You've got Jack Harrison, dwight McNeil, dan Juma was injured for most of the season and then it was Lewis Dobbin. We just didn't have any. We got away with the fact that we didn't have any major injury problems in that position of the pitch. So it's like, yeah, jack Harrison's probably not going to play every game, winston's probably not going to play any game every game, but the ability to rotate them and have options and not have to roll out the same team is actually an improvement on where we were last season. Yeah, we saw James Garner played on the right side of that a few times.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because he had to when we were strained. We were kind of whether it was luck or managing injury the players' bodies better. Now we were lucky, we didn't have that many injuries, so it's an interesting point. Where do we think let's talk about income? We'll talk about this. I want to talk about gaps. Then we'll talk about players that are potentially going out. Where do we think the gaps are? You can always add quality, but in terms of places in the squad, now where you look and go, we haven't got sufficient quality or depth in a particular sport. Where would we say that is? I would say, definitely central midfield, because you've sold Inanna and even if you then move Decore back and view him as a central midfielder, you've lost Gomez in that area of the park. You've sold Inanna. So you've basically got Gay as a year older. I mean, it doesn't seem like time affects him, but you never know when that changes. You bought Tim in from Villa, who is we haven't talked about Tim.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about Tim, who seems like a good potential player, but I think he's 19 and he's very much signed as someone that you think hope develops into something. He's not someone you're signing to be like, right, we're going to drop you in right now to play every game. So I think we're right in central midfield. And then the other spot two spots I would identify, and it sort of depends on how the outgoing is going or how you view certain players.
Speaker 1:I'd be really fascinated about right back, because if your view is Nathan Patterson is a good right back, who can play a role, then I think we'll set a right back because you've got Patterson, got um Patterson, coleman and then Young, who can deputize there, can also deputize at left back. I think if Dyche doesn't like Patterson, I think we're short at right back because you're limiting yourself to Seamus Coleman, who is 35, and Ashley Young, who is 39, nearly 40 like. So I think how we've used Nathan Patterson will really determine right back. And then the final one is I think I would like to see us get another winger in, because I still think we're probably one short there, and then, short of that, we can talk about Calvert-Lewin.
Speaker 1:What about left back though, because I mean, who is that back? It's actually young and I don't like him at right back. I like him even less. I think I think that's right, I I think, yeah, that's a fair job, you know, because Mikko's, you know, he's a bit injury prone. Mikko Lenko, yeah, you know, as he sort of demonstrates, you can sort of see that and Coleman was umming and ahhing about retiring.
Speaker 1:So, you know, it's not that there's almost as if, like, ashley Young's never given a hint of retiring. So he's obviously, obviously still feels he's got it, whereas Coleman might. My question tells you he's not. Coleman's not going to play 44, 45 games. No, he might play half that, but no, I think. Yeah, I think left-backs are fresh out behind the bunker, andy. What about what you think gaps-wise?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean right-backs are really interesting. I think the answer to the question what does Dice think of Patterson was answered last season, because there were several games where he could have played Patterson and just didn't he played. You know, ashley Young was there, I'm sure he played. Did he play James Garner right back ahead of Patterson in one game, or have I made that up? They James Garner right back ahead of Patterson in one game or have I made that up?
Speaker 1:You played right wing back once or twice. Garner did play right back for the England under-21s. In whatever tournament they won with Lee Carsley, garner was the starting right back for the England under-21s. So you may well view as a sort of utility right back that he gives you the third or fourth option. So maybe left back is the better, is the better shot and the other thing about midfield.
Speaker 1:To come back to that bit, is the thing which is possible although unlikely, I will admit is there's a deli alley shaped question? Yeah, because you know he's. He's out of contract but he's been training with everton, I think still is. So you, god knows what is actually happening there, but they must. Either Everton are just being nice and saying we're going to help you and we'll help you continue rehabilitation, which is possible, or but they would stop doing that at some point, obviously, or they're still figuring out whether there's a question, whether there's something there, in which case great, if you get Dele Alli at 75% of his potential he's a very, very good footballer and, in that time as well, presumably having a conversation with Spurs around if we were to sign him.
Speaker 2:Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that just because Dele is now out of contract, that doesn't mean the whole arrangement that we had with Spurs, where we paid a certain amount of money once he played a certain number of games, is null and void, because that's obviously how you get around, that you just wait for that contract to elapse and then give him a new one. So my understanding is there's clauses around us not not being able to do that. So we might well be having a conversation with with topman, uh around reese sun and uh delhi and you know, and having a conversation around uh the you know regarding what sorts of fee that might be yeah, I think we've heard some stuff about yeah, I think happening, I think that conversation has essentially been agreed because it will depend on what the terms are.
Speaker 1:I don't think the same terms in, like the 10 million, a certain number of games are implied, but I suspect there was a fee, that there was some sort of arrangement where if he signed a new contract with us, that would have been a trigger of a fee, which I think the reporting was that we've negotiated would actually happen further down the line.
Speaker 1:Yeah well, I'd heard and this is all conjecture, but it does make sense Because, if you think about it, you're in this situation Spurs have got no real leverage in that negotiation, so you can say, well, we'll just he goes somewhere else. They sign some of the contracts, they get nothing right, yeah. So what they get nothing right like yeah. So what I'd heard is that evanson had negotiated that if we sold him, if he signed him on the contract, and if we sold him right, spurs would get a big chunk of that right, which makes sense, right, because that you know. Otherwise it's first say, okay, well, if he signs on the contract, we want 10 million pounds, you're just gonna go yeah, he's not gonna sign a contract then, and you're gonna?
Speaker 1:get like there's no, you know yeah, yeah, he'll go sign for some, for someone else who will, who will definitely pay you nothing. Yeah, so I think you know, because spurs are sort of I mean, you know spurs were unlocking the deal that they did with us and that he they would have expected him to play more obviously, but so I think it just makes sense. I just don't raise it because I think there's still something there, isn't there, like he's obviously hasn't gone away. Yeah, yes, totally. Um, let's talk about outgoings. I wanted to do a bit too. We'll come to the sort of um, uh, branthwaite thing, which has sort of been the giant kind of thing, but you know, yeah let's read ben ben ben.
Speaker 1:Man reads from the internet a new feature we're gonna do on the, the podcast. Okay so, Dele Alli actually is listed in our outgoings because he has some contracts. He hasn't formally got us off, since he'll be with us. Andrew Govements, his contract expired and we didn't retain him. Andy Lonergan went on a free transfer to Wigan, which I'm learning literally as I read this Andy Lonergan's about 480 years old. Yes, he is, that does make sense. He's after, after that the truth.
Speaker 2:Andy Lonergan is just going through the EFL, the Football League for the season not played for yet, alphabetically, and he must have a W for blessed. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:He's trying to do the 92, but by playing for them all by playing for them all.
Speaker 2:yes.
Speaker 1:Lewis Dobbin, who we sold to Aston Villa, who has now gone on loan to West Brom, which is competing, he doesn't even move a house.
Speaker 1:The whole thing's worked out great for him. Ben Godfrey, who has gone to Atalanta for around somewhere in the region of 10 million pounds, and then the big one obviously is amadou bin ala, who has gone to astondale for somewhere in the region of 50 million pounds. Clauses, and how do we feel about those bits of business generally? I, I was, um, I was surprised that the um, I was a little bit surprised. The godfrey one, I don't, because I just didn. I just didn't really see it coming and maybe that necessitated the O'Brien signing.
Speaker 1:I think we could say that Dyche didn't really fancy an honour. That's pretty fair to say because there were lots of opportunities to play him. And it's fair to say as well, he was technically our best central midfielder and um dash didn't, you know, obviously just didn't fancy him. So to get 50 million for him, uh, obviously helps us out enormously with the psr because, uh, what is he sounded what we found two years ago into a four-year contract. So half of that transfer fee that we paid to, yeah, leal has not been paid off. So you're looking at roughly, you're looking at obviously, the 50 million is now spread over a five-year contract, but we get all the gains straight away.
Speaker 1:But you get exactly. You get that gain straight away.
Speaker 2:About 30 million or something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it's helped us out with PSR and has obviously helped fund some of those deals. I think I mean one, the interesting one, the really quite interesting one was the obviously Louis Darby just in the circumstances in which it happened, because that's obviously absolutely been done for reasons of getting around PSR. And for anyone listening who doesn't sort of maybe understand how that works, it's basic that obviously any academy products are booked as pure profit because they are obviously. They start from a bank, they start from a base rate of zero and anything that above that could be banked as pure profit. So what the clubs have obviously done is they've inflated the prices for players that they then exchange for an inflated fee. So we got what was it like, was it uh?
Speaker 2:10 million for the job and we paid.
Speaker 1:Not, we paid the other nine million for tim, and those players are probably comfortably half that value. So you're looking at, you know, you've just, you've just put on an extra five million, yeah, through your books, um, but and you haven't, you haven't actually spent any money.
Speaker 1:Well, it's not because the PSR when you sell a player, the PSR gain is booked right away. When you buy a player, the PSR cost is spread over the contract. So Tim, our new best friend Tim, is on a four-year contract, which I'm guessing you saw on the three-year contract. So that's three minutes. So basically we've gained 10,. We've gained a net 7 in that transaction. And if Dobbin's on a four-year contract, Villa would have gained a net 7 too. Isn't it amazing how that works. It's like Coke and Pepsi. Coke and Pepsi don't really compete with each other, they just act like they do.
Speaker 1:The arrangement suits everybody, Sorry.
Speaker 2:Adam.
Speaker 1:No, it's fine. Yeah, and this has unfortunately been a natural consequence of the PSR rules, which I know. Caveat the fact that Premier League have agreed, obviously did sign up for these, but this has been a natural consequence of the way it's been enforced. And Kieran Maguire did sign up for these, but this has been a natural consequence of the way it's been, the way it's been enforced. Yeah, um and uh, kieran mcguire was talking about.
Speaker 1:As soon as these things came out, he said they're so poorly written. He immediately said he immediately wrote down 10 ways, quite literally 10 ways in which they could be navigated, one of which was selling your assets to yourself through a different company, which is obviously what Chelsea have done. The PSR rules are just not fit. Obviously, as we know, are not fit for purpose, and this sort of thing is inevitable. It's a bit sad when you see Academy products be sold. Yeah, but it becomes necessary, and I wouldn't put us in the same bracket as, like chelsea, you know signing, you know selling conor gallagher because they've pissed so much money up the wall that now it becomes absolutely essential that they have to. And, and so I mean personally, I was a bit sad about it, like I like an honor. As a player, I think he's really technically fantastic and I think in think with a different manager he probably would have been successful. But the net benefit of having Dyche in the way he wants to play is a much more important thing to consider.
Speaker 1:The most annoying thing about this season, outside of us inevitably losing to whichever promoted team we should batter at home, the most annoying thing about the discourse for this season is, I convinced Amadou Inamu was going to look like an absolute superstar playing for United and we're going to have Everton fan after Everton fan. Well, why wasn't he like that? For us, because Dyche didn't want him to play like that. Yeah, it was a system thing. Yeah, it wasn't a player thing, it's a system thing. And In yeah, it was a system thing. Yeah, it wasn't a player thing, it's a system thing.
Speaker 1:And Arnaz basically said this, like after he moved. He did an interview, um, after the Euros, where he basically said you know, I felt like the Euros, I was really able to play my own game, because sometimes you're told to play a certain way which doesn't emphasize the skill set that you have, which is essentially as polite a way of saying as you can. I was told to play in a way that limited how I wanted to play the game. So I think you'll see him play. He'll be a much more progressive passer for Villa.
Speaker 1:I think he'll carry the ball more for Villa. I think he'll look like a really, really, really. I think he'll look like one of the best new midfielders in Europe and I'm sort of. I'm sort of annoyed at Deitch in a sense, because my concern is you have a player that talented but are absolutely unwilling to bend your system to accommodate that talent, you are harming yourself rather than helping yourself. Deitch's system is very effective, but at some point you have to operate with the players that you have, not the players that you wish you had, and I think the anana experience demonstrates that he can't do that or he's unwilling to do that because he couldn't make an honor work in the system.
Speaker 1:And he was, or he was unwilling to make an honor in the system, so he rolled out garner and an addresser garner gay more often rather than playing someone who is, I think, one of the best English fields in Europe. So I was expecting Inanna to go, but I am worried about what it says about Dyche, tactically, that he couldn't make it work. It might be interesting to see I agree with all that. I think it might be interesting to see what a Sean Dyche like, having finished 10th and 9th in two consecutive seasons versus the sean dash who stayed in the league on the last day the night before. Because if this is my question with this is the question is that you know, can he do what you say, which is because if you want to say, like everton's ambition for me should be pushed towards the top six or seven, right, that that is like doable at the scale of you know where we are as a club. If you want to do that, you've got to accommodate players who are at that level.
Speaker 1:Now maybe he can't do that or he's not willing to do that. It's very, very possible, maybe in the context of the season we just had where, if you go back, it was only on the last day of the last season we didn't get relegated. He's just not willing to do it in that context, basically because, because the job last season was, you know, we stayed up quite comfortably in the end, despite having points to dr shang and says, easy, we actually he came in and like the job was to like stay in the premier league. But I agree, like you know, that there is a question there about can you otherwise the way you play, if you nullify teams against us, nullify one or two things, because no one can do anything really surprising.
Speaker 1:Let's talk a little bit about actually I'm going to I keep putting it off, but let's talk about Dominic Calvert-Lewin and let's talk about Dominic Calvert-Lewin and let's talk about Dominic Calvert-Lewin and our strikers in general, because we've actually got a shitload of them. Now Neil Bope is back. All our dreams are realised. I think he actually is a good fit for the number 10 in Dijs's system. I genuinely, do you think about someone who triggers a press?
Speaker 2:and is annoying. He triggers all kinds of things he triggers all kinds of things.
Speaker 1:He triggers other. He triggers other, yeah the entire. Arsenal fan base. He's the biggest shithouse. He's the biggest shithouse.
Speaker 1:No, I think do you think we have a theory that Mopay actually ends up being a useful asset in our system? So you mean that number 10? So you're not going to. Let's look at it. So just let's look at strikers got Calvert-Lewin, beto Chimiti, mopey maybe you say Mopey is a number 10. I agree with that because he's not, certainly not physically. He's not a dice center forward, yeah, but he plays 4-4-2 and he's a second striker.
Speaker 1:Yeah which we could do. I mean, it's not as insane as it maybe sounded a few years ago. Presumably one-off. Chimiti, Calvert-Lewin or Beto is going to leave before the transfer window.
Speaker 2:Well.
Speaker 1:Chimiti's just had an operation on his foot Right.
Speaker 2:So he's going to.
Speaker 1:I've not read how long he's actually out for, but there was a. He Instagrammed a photo of him in a hospital with what looked like a bandaging on his foot, so it didn't seem like, oh, I'll be back in a week. So that may influence our ability to move somebody. If Chimiti isn't available, because we're going to, we really, just in terms of the balance of your squad, you'd really want two players to play that role. Yeah, you wouldn't want to be paying for three, right? So I guess the question I'm circling around is do we think Harlow Owen will still be an Everton player by the time the season starts or by the end of the season? No, okay, give us more.
Speaker 2:Expand an audio.
Speaker 1:Imagine we were doing something which you're both talking about, these things at death. I don't think he will, because I don't think he'll sign a new contract, because I think he's made pretty clear that he doesn't want to sign a new contract. He's got one year left and I think if you're Everton Football Club, you cannot let someone who you can book as pure profit on PSR I don't think you can let that player run out of company. So who finds him? Well, I suspect what happens is that the annoying thing that we the Dominic Cavalier in ruins because his wage demands are too high, is we had a PSRE swap deal set up with Newcastle for Yacouba Minte, who has now gone to Brighton and looks like an absolute superstar who's an attacking winger, like for Yacoub Minte, who has now gone to Brighton and looks like an absolute superstar, who's an attacking winger, like you know, good, fair player, pacey, exactly.
Speaker 1:I suspect the reason why we went after Lindström was because of that deal with Arthur, because what that was going to be is like, essentially, you get Calvert-Lewin for 30 million, we buy Minte for 30 million and we both book profit. It fell apart because of Calvert-Lewin's wage demand with Newcastle and there is an alternate universe. We're going to watch Mint AB amazing for Brighton. I think what happens with Calvert-Lewin is we end up selling him quite close to the end of the window, for we're talking about £30 million. I think you end up selling him for somewhere between £20 and £25 million.
Speaker 1:Effectively, you take the hit on his wages, you go, he won't sign a new contract. He's probably worth more than that, but we need to get what we can right now because otherwise we get nothing next season. And there's a question with me, with Calvillo. I like Calvillo and I'm generally sort of a defender of Calvillo and to my friends, but there is a question about how many games a season is he going to play, because we've got a lot of games you know, and he averages I mean he plays what about two-thirds of the games in a season.
Speaker 1:He played pretty. I mean, he did play pretty much every. He played pretty much every Premier League game from I'd say like I think he had a bit of a spell where he didn't play and obviously had better playing for a few games, but last season was definitely, over the past three or four seasons, like his most productive since his Ancelotti season. But the issue that he had last season, of course, was that fact that at one point he was he was statistically the worst finisher, yeah, in the league, because he missed, he missed chances. You've seen him in the pre-season where he's missed one or two chances as well. So even when he's playing, the job that he's paid to do has actually been quite questionable as well. Sorry, go ahead. Yeah, I agree with Ben. I think if he's not going to sign a new deal and it becomes evident that those negotiations are going to be hitting a brick wall, then you sell because we can't afford to let him go for free in the Sunlight. Andrew, what do you think?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'd agree with all that, and the one thing I'd add is the fans have obviously got on his back in the past when he's been missing chances and have been critical of his performances.
Speaker 2:So a situation the club really wants to avoid is in the past when he's been missing chances and has been critical of his performances.
Speaker 2:So a situation the club really wants to avoid is him remaining at the club after the transfer window's closed at the end of August, when it's obvious he's not signing a new contract.
Speaker 2:He's then playing missing chances and then the fans just get on his back when he's then playing missing chances, and then the fans just get on his back, um, when he's playing, because that's just going to obviously lead to a negative atmosphere in the ground. So yeah, and let's be honest as well, let's be fair he's perfectly entitled to not sign a contract as an employee. That he's perfectly entitled to do that and he's well within his rights to do that. But from the club's point of view, I agree with everything you guys have said. If he's not going to sign a contract, the club just needs to sell him for whatever realistic fee they can sell him for, um, because that's then just pure profit and that's far better than losing him in 12 months for absolutely nothing to add some context to the injury thing and I've just pulled up the staff he played in 32 Premier League games last season, started 26, subbed in in six and then was injured for four.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah.
Speaker 1:So actually he was just shit, he was just shit.
Speaker 2:He scored last season.
Speaker 1:He was very present. This is an interesting question. So Calvert-Lewin and this is just Premier League Calvert-Lewin was involved in 32 games, scored seven goals and two assists. If you played Beto for 32 games, what's the over-under on? Did he score more goals. Beto's goals per minute is higher than Calvert-Lewin. Yes, I agree, I think Beto scores more goals if he starts the same number of games as Calvert. I agree, right, I think also.
Speaker 1:He just looks like a bit of a donkey doing that. You know that's my impression, but we've got Look. He joins a long history of the Brett Angel Dennis Trakworski history. I think he's really hard from. It's his first season in the Premier League. He was working in KFC like six years ago. I think he's a really good player. I remember when this happened I think Beto's minutes per goal was something like 180. And Calvert-Lewins is like nearly double. It's more than that. Anyway, sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:The transfer strategy over the summer has obviously not just been to create more, have a little creativity, but it's also spread the balls around, because andai isn't obviously an astronaut striker, but he will be playing and he scored in um chef's united promotion season. He scored a good number of goals for them. I think he got like between 15 and 20 goals in the championship and then obviously they lost. They lost them to Marseille in the summer. So, and then you've got Lindström as well, who has obviously shown he knows where the goal is in the pre-season against Preston. So the idea that you know, people don't really talk about the fact you know you need, you need a 20 goal season striker, because modern football doesn't often, uh, work like that.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah yeah, yeah so you especially someone as well, and the way you want you know you're, the way that we might want to play is that you could see Beto as being not like a target man but a focal point of attack. And because he's a focal point of attack, he brings all the plays into play. So you've got like Lindstrom and you've got Dive and you've got like more plays like that.
Speaker 1:So you can, sorry, and we're all trying to keep it together and for the purposes of the podcast and you've got to die, then you've got more pain, so you can. Sorry, we're all trying to keep it together and for the purposes of the podcast, we just need to explain that Andy just accidentally disconnected himself from the Zoom so he just disappeared entirely off the call and then sheepishly reappeared about a minute later I did that thing in school, where you look at your mate giggling and you just start going, so I made the mistake of looking at Austin whilst I was playing.
Speaker 1:So sorry to interrupt your flow there, but we need to do it now there's the humour in the room, so the idea of Beto being able to replace Cavalier, as like our striker, is not as sort of no, I think, because the total he's got to actually get there is obviously not, evidently not very high, but his ability to bring all the players into the game is objectively probably not.
Speaker 1:It's not as good as Cavalier's. I think that's his real strength. But we have a much richer set of players now who can contribute to playing. Our top scorer last season I remember was in the Premier League, I think it was Dwight McNeil. He might have been joined with Calvin Levy. So we've got a good number of players there who can pitch in with goals and in the event of injuries, um, you know you're not, you're not panicking as much as, like ben said earlier, where last season we were very lucky. You know you lose. You lose jack harrison and then you, you know you're bringing in lewis dobbin and then you lose that dobbin. Then you're bringing in some academy kid it's. We're not in that position this season. Decore was with seven, was just at the top with Calvert-Lewin. Dwight McNeill only scored three. I thought he scored more. I thought he scored more. Maybe it's just I remember there being more bankers.
Speaker 2:Maybe I'm thinking of Decore.
Speaker 1:Yeah, decore got seven, tristan Gran got seven, atrissi Granaghe was actually third with four. But anyway, I agree with you. I think if you play Beto, you get as many out of Beto Beto's coming he definitely. Last year he scored three, wait, wait. It's an interesting point.
Speaker 1:I think it relaxes me a little bit listening to you guys talk about this, because I think the question about Calvert-Bloom, which will be answered in time, is is he as good as he thinks he is? Yeah, the idea of going to Newcastle wouldn't bomb, would it? I don't know what Calvert-Lewin thinks he deserves. I don't know why he's in a position where he thinks what he's asking for for Newcastle was between £130 and £160 a week, depending on what support he's got.
Speaker 2:Which is probably not far off. We're paying him.
Speaker 1:We're paying him about £100, so we obviously want to pay rise from us, and it's like I'm having fun, Dom.
Speaker 2:What have you done? The?
Speaker 1:form doesn't deserve it and you've been injured the past two seasons. I'm not really sure, mate, what you've done to deserve a pay-by. Fair enough if you want parity, but I don't see what. And also the idea of going to Newcastle was.
Speaker 1:I mean, I imagine from Newcastle's point of view they're looking for squad depth but he's not going to start because they've got arguably the best striker in One of the best strikers in the league in. Isak, who banged them in last season, will be playing, and Eddie Howe doesn't play a two-striping system and he wouldn't put Isak and Calvert-Lewin together anyway. They're too similar in terms of height, so for Calvert-Lewin's point of view it didn't make any sense anyway. So I'll just quickly run the numbers. Beto appeared in 30 games last season, but he only started nine of them. If you look at the minutes that they both played in the Premier League, beto played 941 minutes and scored three goals. Calvert-lewin played 2,186 and scored seven goals. If you divide those so you get the goals per minute, beto is 313 and calvert lewin is 312 minutes per game so they're essentially identical, but you've also got to consider that beto is coming into situations midway like after, with 20 minutes to go.
Speaker 1:You know, often you're not. You're coming in, especially in games where you're winning. You're not trying to score a goal Like he's there to you know, be a hold-up player. So it's a different context. So I genuinely believe that if they play the same, if you gave Beto the 2,000 minutes that Calvin Owen got, I think he'd get more goals.
Speaker 1:The most important stat and we've probably covered it already because goals you know much like assists, you know you should never look at assists because it requires a different player to do it away. The one that you want to look at players of creativity is big chances created in much the same way for four strikers. You actually want to focus more on big chances missed, big goals required if you, if you you can look at like because we're not the most creative team. So therefore the minutes per goal is naturally going to be reduced because of that. It's obviously a stat comparing those two it. It works because you're comparing two players exactly so that worked.
Speaker 1:But if you want to look at like big chances missed, better was actually better in terms of that stat, because we know calvert lewin wasin was very, very low on that list. He missed a number of good chances last season, so it'd be a shame for him to go. I really like him to save a lot of the US teams. I like Calvert-Lewin as a player and I like him as a big hitter, but it is what it is If he's not going to set a new contract, then that's the whole decision, especially because we have to do.
Speaker 1:We have one more domestic loan slots that we can use and we've all consistently been linked with Armando Brozier over the years. So, if you do view, actually we still need another strike because Chamisi's injured there's a world where you can sell Cavvert-Lewin and bring in someone who is a perfectly good back-up to Beto for much cheaper. Although my sorry to finish this thought, my pet theory is that we end up with Calvin Phillips on loan from man City living in that spot.
Speaker 2:I'd agree with that.
Speaker 1:He's a very, very dicey player. Yeah, I think. On the Brophy point, I think Chelsea want to get rid of Piersa. Oh Piersa. Yeah, we're not going to get into it today, but Chelsea are fucked.
Speaker 2:I look forward to a future pod where we get into the nitty gritty of Chelsea's squad. We can obviously wait to the end of this window to see exactly who they end up with. But I mean, they are screwed. They are a PSR charge waiting to happen big time. But we can get more into that in a few weeks. Yeah, solve that problem.
Speaker 1:All right, let's talk about Jarrod Brantwaite. Everton have held firm, got bids of what is it? £40 million or something from United. Everton held firm so first question, I guess do we think Everton are? There's been no interest from anyone else that we've heard about, do we? There's not a ton of spare. You know people are taking PSL seriously now, so there's not loads of money sloshing around.
Speaker 1:The Saudis haven't hit the table over this summer yet. Do you think Everton are kind of bluffing or do you think they actually want to keep him? I think for this season we'll want to keep him. I'm very confident that we will. I think the O'Brien signings will be pretty important to him, going for more money, because he's not going to get any worse, he's only going to get better. And he'll be in the England squad. He's going to be playing for England this time next summer Bram Thway, I think, or at least he'll be the first deputy to Daniel and then Stones. So I think he's. We've played it well and United have either taken their approach, taken their sort of approach to how they're trying to restructure United, which is to really try and scale back on costings and stuff, and they've put in quite a derisory and insulting initial offer of something like 30 million or something stupidly low.
Speaker 1:Which means legs. Are you buying? Yeah, and there's a thing in negotiation where you do an anchor in a way. You basically get the other party to focus on a particular number. So I don't know if they're trying to try and do that approach, but I think evanson obviously just too shrewd for that. That will be too shrewd. They're not going to be going. You know, we're not going to accept anything less than 60 million this, uh, this summer if we were to sell it. Um so um, and I can't see united coming back in from. There's been absolutely no talk of any of the team going for him, because obviously they've signed. What was it? Mauro, yeah, mauro, yeah, mauro, a young French kid from Lille who's now out for about four months with a foot injury. Sorry, it's all right, he probably doesn't listen.
Speaker 1:It is just funny, it is funny. Man United, funny, isn't it? And they've got quite a number of other centre-backs anyway, and they're being constantly linked with the link from Bayern Munich, so I can't see him leaving. I think we've played it really well and we'll have seven in next season for something north of £17 million. You need a bidding war for that kind of player, don't? You, it's a longish contract and it's a big thing. He's obviously got the fact that he's English, which obviously adds value to him, but he's left-footed as well.
Speaker 1:He's a left-footed ball playing centre-back and they aren't incredibly rare to come up with that. Yeah, and it's credit to Everton that they've put themselves in a position where they didn't have to sell it. Yeah, you know that through a combination of the, I think that you know what I understand from people who talk about, or seem to be close to, everton's PSR calculation. It wasn't actually that close from the Dobbin thing was what we needed to get done. The Inanna war buys us leeway Although. Inanna happened after the PSR.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but to do stuff for now some room for manoeuvre. So I think Everton have done a very good professional job of not being up against a June 30th deadline to sell, you know, granthwaite for a knockdown fee as our only asset. Yeah, I agree with that. I mean, I think it's a superstar. I think the man United offer was just utterly bizarre, like I just don't understand. It reminds me in a lot of man United sense of this. Remember the summer when boys went to man United and then ummed and armed and then 20 quid for Fellaini and Bates.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it came in and they offered 30 million for Fellaini and Bates like as a joint package. It was like who sat down and thought that that was ever going to work. It was just bizarre. So I'm pleased that we don't have to sell him, because I think he's he's will only grow in terms of his value assuming he doesn't get injured or anything and then um, and he fits the system. And that's the difference between him and anana is that you. You feel like we're not going to miss Inanna because in Dyche's system those central midfielders are more replaceable, whereas I feel like if you'd sold Bramflay you'd be going okay. He was a massive part of our strong defensive record last season. He would have been a much bigger miss and you're going to concede 10, 15 goals or something because he's not there.
Speaker 1:It's interesting because he's not there. Yeah, yeah, it's interesting with united because you can sometimes look. It's interesting to look at stuff sometimes when you're trying to work out why someone's doing something to your life, what, what? What do I think if I assume they're stupid, and what do I think if I assume they're a genius? And if united is stupid, then they just are amateurish. Basically, like it's like these people don't know football, they think Everton are up against it, don't have good intelligence on that, so put a stupid offer in which makes sense and might be exactly what happened.
Speaker 1:If they're smart, what they're doing actually is they just saw it as a way to signal to the market that they were not going to overpay for players and to their fans, like new sheriff in town, we're going to put the opera in to show that we're not gonna be, yeah, you know, like, which I don't really see the benefit of, but I can kind of see them doing that maybe. But I think if you're not gonna, just to play that out, if, if you're not gonna, if your stance is, we're not gonna pay evanston's asking price, why do you need to put a bid into? Yeah, I know, I agree, you just brief, you brief out we're not going to pay Everton's asking price. Why do you need to put a bid in to get that? Yeah, no, I agree.
Speaker 2:You just brief out, we're not putting an offer in because it's inflated.
Speaker 1:You don't have to do the slightly embarrassing we'll put a low offer in to make that point. Like you can achieve the same outcome, which I think is a smart outcome, without doing the dumb bit in the middle. Yeah, you're totally right. So I think they're probably just stupid. Yes, or to me, maybe slightly more. You know realistically, don't really understand how this sport works. I think they've been. I think they're not. Yeah, I think you're right. I think they're naive.
Speaker 1:They're naive and they've gone in with their idea of like we're going to do this with Manchester United and sort it out in this way and we're going to take that mindset and apply it to transfers when other clubs. It's fundamentally not. It's not a rational business. I mean it's not. It's it's the way players are valued. It's not rational but, also you've got to consider that in eos are like cycling people, right, right, I mean cycling. You control so many of the things internally. You're controllables, but whereas in football, because of the transfer market and buying and selling players, a lot of this stuff is is about other people, someone on the other side that you're negotiating with.
Speaker 1:When you're running a cycling team, you're not negotiating with other people to get like, buy a cycle. It's like there's contracts and stuff but, like so many of the improvements are internal to that team how you operate, how you operate and stuff but like so many of the improvements are internal to that tier. It's how you operate, how you operate. And this is like the marginal gains in the delf brelf, dave brelf's stuff and the one x one percent here. And you know the famous story about the olympics with the making sure that every team member had the right pillows so that they were getting the best sleep, and all that marginal gain stuff and that. But that's all internal. You can't apply. Trying to take that logic and apply it to external negotiations where you have another party on the other side. It's like, well, I don't care if that's your process or that's your philosophy. Jared Brown's makes worth 75 million pounds and unless you're willing to offer that, fuck off.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a good thing.
Speaker 1:Bottom line. I'm very valuationist, he's worth whatever the selling team says he is worth. Yeah. Yeah, bottom line, like you can say that 30, 40 million is a good, isn't it a price point? If we don't agree, it doesn't matter. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, and it's interesting because because you're right. It's interesting about the cycling analogy because you know the predictor of, I bet. I mean, I don't know cycling super well, but you could see how the operations of a team and the science by the team is a big or is a strong correlation with outcomes, whereas we know from the premier league, the biggest correlation to outcome.
Speaker 1:The premier league is wage bill. Yeah that's the number one predictor of where you're going to finish is what, which is basically how good of players do you have, which, of course, makes complete sense. So it is obviously going to be a learning curve for them. Andy, anything on Brantway before we move on to whatever the hell else we want to talk about.
Speaker 2:I agree with everything that's been said about Brantway. All I have about the end bit on football is, in addition to people sort of treated how they run their football teams differently, it's people. Modern football is a business but equally it operates differently to every other business model. And just using the office as an example, you know Jim Ratcliffe is bringing his, his incredibly successful businessman and you wonder if he's bringing that business approach into running Manchester United and trying to run it at that club the same as he's run his other businesses. And it's taken a little bit of time to work to work out that Manchester United and football in general needs running differently to another business, just because it is for the reasons that you've you guys have alluded to.
Speaker 1:I agree. Take it to the football side, the commercial stuff, how you operate a stadium, how you negotiate, all of that is but the football the footballing side. Yeah, that yeah it's you know, because no one you know who's ever made money from it.
Speaker 1:I mean to be fair, the Glazer family from man United have made money yes, they're on a very short list of people who've made money from Premier League football teams and to do it, have basically had to alienate their entire fan base against them. Yeah, exactly, you weren't like a business. That's what you end up with. They're not at the top anymore and maybe the Glazers got lucky, maybe this is their strategy all along what they have effectively done. You look back at the history of it and see they sort of didn't underinvest. They've got the most expensive squad ever assembled, but there's a disconnect.
Speaker 1:And Martin Edwards is on the they didn't under invest. They've got the most expensive squad ever assembled, but that that there's a disconnect. And martin edwards is it on the record saying that there's there's a disconnect between the football success and the commercial income. So they were just riding a wave of the brand, basically, and actually they didn't need to win, yeah, stuff to do that, whereas you know, and obviously that's gonna sort of they're gonna run out of road on that a little bit, speaking of owners who've gotten fucked over and lost an enormous amount of money take a moment we want to talk about takeover stuff.
Speaker 1:There's not a ton to talk about, but it's obviously a thing, so we'll talk about it. I want to take a moment to just quantify for everybody what Farhad Moshiri, because we all think Everton have made us miserable and we're like trust me, no one has suffered more than Mishiri who I've met.
Speaker 1:The guy once seemed like a nice guy.
Speaker 1:Don't know him, I've no interest in him at all, but that guy has loaned Everton, bought Everton's, bought his shares for 400 million pounds, has loaned the club himself approximately another 400 million pounds, which he was um, the deal with the freaking group which fell through, which may or may not come back because they walked away from roma before they bought them, and the 777 thing needs to kind of work itself out in terms of you know, us being a party to this potential sort of criminal thing in the us um, they were going to pay him 50 million pounds and that included writing off all of the debt.
Speaker 1:So he would have, in that scenario, lost 750 million pounds and they said that they that they walked away and I think, from what I understand from stuff that's out and people have spoken to, is that they would have carried on if he'd offered, if he'd accepted, £1. So the guy is going to lose somewhere between £700 and £800 million from owning Everton. His reported net worth when he came into this was £1.2 billion. The guy is going to lose somewhere between 700 and 800 million pounds from owning everton, yeah, which he's reported net worth when he came into this was 1.2 billion. So that's, I mean he doesn't have like that is like the substantive balance and who knows what. The other point to make that is that and I'll make this point in a way that where we don't have to consult any lawyers, let's see, I'm not sure all of that money was necessary.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, yeah, no, I agree, that's the point I was going to make, but somebody, somebody is losing a lot of money.
Speaker 1:Someone has lost somewhere between seven to eight hundred million pounds and that is fucking painful.
Speaker 2:I mean that is like 800 million pounds and that is fucking painful.
Speaker 1:I mean, that is like Portmanteau has been a disaster for the football club, but you cannot ever, we'll never, be able to fault the guy for not putting his money where his mouth was because boy did he, and he got absolutely fucked.
Speaker 1:My working theory is that the free-licking group come back in yeah, like not just because they did it with Roma, but there was nothing fun. They didn't. What didn't happen was they didn't come in, look at the books and go you've lied to us. This is all over the place. We're pulling out because it's a fundamentally bad, like bad deal for us in terms of it's not what we were told in the run.
Speaker 1:What actually happened is two things again, with all the normal caveats and sort of some stuff's out there, some people that I've spoken to who are quite closer to this stuff. Two things happened. One, as you said, was the mishiri shares thing, where they wanted to basically say to mishiri hey, we're taking on, we're wiping out all the debts, like, yeah, you get a pound and you go away happy, not having to own a debt ridden club anymore, and mishiri was all in firma for the for the 50 million. And then the second thing is with the. I don't fully understand the sorts of how this is all necessarily connected, but currently seven, seven, seven are um a cap, which is the company we're providing or assume their liabilities but are being sued and by in the us and therefore any business that is.
Speaker 1:And we obviously still owe money to a cap, about 700 million, seven, seven. So anyone buying the club would have legal indemnity against any outcome of that court case, because at the minute there's no guarantee of what we actually owe to 777 and a cap, because it has to be worked out in court about who owns what and who's liable for and who's that. And they weren't, weren't the freaking group? The words I was told were weren't the freaking group? The ones I was told were weren't comfortable with the indemnity that they can get to protect themselves against that legal case. But that's just a risk thing, right? And would they be more comfortable with the indemnity if they knew they were saving £50 million because they weren't paying Moshiri? Right, if Moshiri goes, ok, you can have it for a pound. They go, ok. Well, we now feel better that we might owe some more money later because we've saved £50 million here and now we'll do the deal and it can only be like it's not that the liability is potentially unlimited. We borrowed £777, lent us £200 million. That money may, and again emphasise, nothing is certain, because none of us. I don't want to I mean 777 afford to sue us.
Speaker 1:There are ongoing civil and potentially criminal investigations into the conduct of 777 and you know, one of the allegations that has been made is that they effectively raised borrowed money secured against assets and they secured multiple loans against the same assets. So they go, but you get three different mortgages on the same house Can't do that. That is what is alleged to have happened, which of course might mean that the money that Everton received in cash, which real money was paid, may have been acquired fraudulently. That's not Everton's problem, except in the sense there's a question because 7-7 have now gone bust and the people trying to work on their assets. The question really is we may end up actually legally being required to pay back less than 200 million, because that's how asset disposals work. The creditors for the people on the other side of 7-7-N who lent them the money who they then lent to us, are going to get back less than a dollar for a dollar. So it's an unknown of 200 million pounds. The question is not that it could be a billion. You know actually they they mortgage, you know they actually own goodison or something like. It's not going to be. It's not going to be that, but it's a complication.
Speaker 1:You say. You say, ben, they'll want to go and buy insurance from somebody. Say we'll pay you 50 million to insure us against potentially 200 million, and some insurance company may decide to do that or not on how they assess that risk. But you know they figure. They also figure they've got machinery by the balls. Yeah, because you know the free king group have now lent Everton operating. It paid you know a tranche of the stadium costs, which I think there's maybe one or two left on that, which is a couple of hundred million quid, and it provided operating. You know capital. So you know it's actually quite a brilliant. You know it's like it's like getting someone hooked on a drug. You know it's like what's mushii we're going to do, and because what? What came out we roughly heard was everything had a few months of operating income. Let's say that's three or four months, I'm guessing completely. But a few is not 12, right, and it's not one either at the end of that period of time.
Speaker 1:What the fuck's machine are you gonna do? You can't, but, like you know, you can't borrow any more money. So at that point, all the. If it's inside a transfer window, they can sell players potentially. If it's outside the transfer window, you go into administration and at that point he loses everything anyway.
Speaker 2:So you know they may go.
Speaker 1:We've got this guy. We'll just come back in three months.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would not be surprised at all if we're in October, november and this all comes back in a freaking group and if you can adopt, if you can get Everton for nothing and end up you know you're going to end up with something around. You've going to end up with something around. You've got to assume debts of somewhere between 200 and 400 million, depending on the you know. Effectively, you're buying a Premier League club for 400 million, which is what Moshiri paid for it 10 years ago, and the Premier League is worth way more than that.
Speaker 1:It's about to move into a new stadium. Yeah, you've got a new stadium that's built. You've gotten on the risk of that. The Premier League's raking in way more money than it did back then. It's actually a bargain. Sorry, Andrew, do you want?
Speaker 2:to come in. I was just about to make the point about the stadium. You know, even if the freaking group do walk away, it can't be beyond the will of man and the will of companies and investors to look at Everton in the circumstances they're in and think this is an opportunity to pick up an undervalued asset, or however you want to describe it, because the new stadium is a game changer. Look at Tottenham, for example. New stadium is a game changer because you look at Tottenham, for example, I don't know, white Hart Lane had a capacity of 38,000, which is about the same as what Goodison is now, and they're now in somewhere north of 60. I mean, they have concerts there, they have boxing matches, they have all sorts of things at Tottenham Hotspur Stadium and that's going to be that. That. That that will surely happen at Everton as well, in addition to all the football matches there. So it's an opportunity for somebody to come in and pick up a Premier League football club, and obviously there's only 20 of them and the number of large sort of well-supported ones.
Speaker 1:So Andy just dropped off the Zoom again, absolutely Very funnily, and I'll find it. I'll tweet this clip. You could see his headphone falling out of his ear as he did it, so we knew exactly what happened. Adam, finish your thoughts. I will try to predict what Andrew's going to say. I agree with him on the stadium thing. He's going to use the Tottenham Hotspur stadium as a Tottenham Hotspur stadium as a comparison. Welcome back, andrew. I don't think that's happened once in all the 75 podcasts. Now Andy's done it twice in the same episode. You're now on mute, andy. Andy, you're just talking as you're muted, you're having a nightmare this is the first time I've used earbuds.
Speaker 2:With um, I thought I'll, I'll get I'll. I'll remove a wire and use earbuds for the first time on a zoom call on my phone and it's not got off to a very auspicious start, so I might just go back to using plugged-in headphones and writing on a.
Speaker 1:Also the audio quality from plugged-in headphones is actually much better as well. Yes, it's actually a better call than general. Sorry, I'm sorry. No, andrew, sorry.
Speaker 2:Andrew carry on.
Speaker 1:Let me finish your point, Andrew. Yeah, no, just about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just to summarise, is that? Yeah, just to summarise is that? Yeah, there's only 20 Premier League clubs, and the number of ones that have got the fan base as large as Everton is obviously smaller than that. So it's a great opportunity for somebody to come in and pick up a Premier League football club for the cheapest price it's possible to buy one for.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's all about the debt. Right, because you're going to end up in a situation where I'm not for. 50 million pounds is not a lot of money? Obviously it is, but you know, somewhere was you know Moshiri's only was asking for 50 million a month ago, so it's only going to go down to potentially one pound to get the club. It's then a question of debt, and the thing about debt is that is it's a you know, that's it. That's the you know game of chicken. Basically, between you as a potential buyer and the people who lent everton that money, because they can say all they want. Well, we're not going to forgive that debt, but if the club goes into administration, then it's going to be taken out of their hands and they'll just accept what they can accept.
Speaker 1:And football clubs and administration is tricky because the way the assets work. So you know you, if you were buying everton, you would be in a very strong position, and an increasingly strong position, to say to you know that a cap, you know the freaking group now who? And I think that's it because I think the sports and media funding stuff got paid back and there's other people who do better podcasts on this, on the exact mess of evidence finances. But you know you're in a very strong position to negotiate these people and say, look, if we don't do this and we're going to offer you 20% you know, 20 pence on the pound for that debt, if we don't buy it, then it's going to go into administration. You're probably going to get less. So it's all going to come down to what the debt holders want to do.
Speaker 1:You make a good point about the top lots there, andrew, because I think Spurs last season made more than any other club on a match day. Yeah, and you're right about the in the fact, about holding gigs and stuff like that, because absolutely everything will be doing that sort of thing. And of course, you've got the, which we haven't done yet. We've also got the idea of having a sailing rights and having that on a waterfront in a major UK city. Oh yeah, it's going to get mentioned on in the tv.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a hundred times a week, it's a big deal yeah, and that's sort of so football fans in general aren't sort of happy with that, the idea of their, their stadium being, like, named after something, but it's not like you know, but the disaster of you know, st James's Park, where Newcastle fans very understandably, um, you know, hated the fact it was called the sports direct arena, um, because it was their, it was their existing stadium. I think that I think the mindset is probably going to be different if we were to do naming rights for the arts bar on Newground, because it's not good as soon. Yeah, I think that the sort of the emotional attachment is not going to be as high in that regard, and also we will probably we might not be in a position to sort of say no to people that come in and want to, you know, name a particular thing. No, so you're right, because all the I know the problem with that kind of staging project is the risk. So you've got all the risk of cost overruns which we've had and just permissioning and actually getting the thing built.
Speaker 1:Once you take that away, it just becomes a valuable asset that you can operate and make, because Everton would make money with a new stadium if you didn't have them and they're paying somewhere between half a million and a million pounds a week in interest currently. You take that away, it's a complete game-changer. Anything else on takeover stuff that we should talk about beyond the fact it's a shit show, but that's okay, not for long.
Speaker 1:I think the point to make is that and for the football finance experts, the camera buyers of the world, the freaking group, pulling out doesn't change. It doesn't mean that we are now like at risk of administration or at risk of all the like, anything like that. It is because, as austin said, that they've given funding, operational funding, that will last for several months, so the risk is not a short-term one in the sense like we're in danger in the same way that we were at the back end it felt like it was at the back end of last season, like we have some breathing room for some of this stuff to work out, for other buyers to appear and for all the reasons that we've said is, actually, if you can work out the finances, it's a good. Uh, the slightly complicated financial situation, it's a good deal. But so I'm less, I'm more relaxed because it's like, okay, he didn't want to buy it. He might still want to buy it and come back, but someone else will buy it. Yeah, well, I'll be.
Speaker 1:Excuse me, I'd be very, very, very surprised if everson went into administration, not just because it's like impossible, it's not impossible at all, it's just it's not really in the interests of we know, because we, you know, before the freaking group ended exclusivity there were three other groups who were circling around who went away. Yeah, you know, and so it's all. It's not in anyone's. Nobody gains from it. Going into administration and and coming. You know it goes into administration when you can't get someone to buy it. Yeah, and that seems very unlikely that you would look at. It's not like how sophisticated or the structural decline in high street retail. As Andy just said, it's a premier football club. There's only 20 of them. The thing's getting bigger and growing and the stadium, like Andrew said earlier, is an absolutely massive pool, the pool for potential investors. Yeah, and that will be completed. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it's nearly done now.
Speaker 1:I mean they've got all the seats in. It's looking fantastic. Yeah, all right, we'll wrap it up there. Good to be back together. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts Spotify, apple, overcast, all those places Follow us. Tell an Everton's Point friend and stay safe out there and we'll see you again before the season starts.