Blues Brothers Everton Podcast
Blues Brothers Everton Podcast
Season Review Part One: Dyche
Part of our of season review and we look into The Gaffer (TM). What did Dyche get right, what did he get wrong and where should we expect him to go next season?
Welcome to episode 73 of the Blues Brothers Everton podcast. It's the end of the season. We did it, we made it, we made it through again. You weren't there, man. You don't know what it was like, except you all were there and you know exactly what it was like.
Speaker 1:So we're going to do an end of season review. We're not just going to do one, oh no, we think we're going to do three, three, maybe four over the next few weeks just to keep ourselves tapped into the uh, tapped into the bloodstream of everton. Um, so the first one we're going to talk about today, we're going to talk about the manager, uh, sean dyche, who, um, I saw, uh, the um, uh grand old team did a great fan survey through their forum and he got a 96 approval rating I saw this morning, which is kim young un would be jealous of those numbers. So it's fair to say that. Uh, you know, most people think he's doing a good job. But we're going to dive into, like you know not just did he do a good job or not? I think it's not, you know not a super interesting question. I think we all think he did a great job, but you know what we learned about him what we think he learned, decisions he made, what that means for the future. That's what we're going to talk about.
Speaker 1:So unfortunately, andy can't make it. He's working this week, so he's asleep probably right now, because we're recording this on Thursday, may 30th, kind of afternoon US time, evening UK time. Ben and Adam are here. Adam, how are you doing?
Speaker 2:I'm good, thanks. Yeah, I'm currently on school holidays, but I've been spending quite literally all day working, so I'm pleased to have finally finally finished and enjoying spending time talking about Everton and talking to you guys. Great Ben, how are you doing?
Speaker 3:I'm very good, thank you. I'm just going on and off mute while I munch a basket of crisps, while recording a podcast, which is a level of professionalism that I think we can all aspire to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's what our listeners come to expect.
Speaker 2:I've eaten three pizzas over the past three, four years since we've started doing this, yeah, but pizza is a quiet food to eat during a podcast.
Speaker 3:You can eat your pizza. It's like the curmode and mayo like a soft white roll. Is the is the loudest thing you're allowed to eat in a cinema. Right, you can eat a pizza on a podcast. Eating a bag of crisps on a podcast is a more dangerous game there was a time there was. There was one episode a while ago.
Speaker 1:We were at home and just opened a can of coke like on on mic, like yeah, you know actually, but mom, I mean well, I mean mom's god of a love you. Mom, hello, I know you're listening. It's like it's the worst of this, like if she's ever like anywhere near where the podcast has been recorded which is pretty rare, but if she ever is, she just the. The woman's ability to make noise that like pierces through is unreal.
Speaker 1:It was dad that opened a can of coke and the funny thing was obviously we don't shoot video of this, you can't see it but he actually effectively he moved the, the can away from the laptop because in case it like exploded, which is very sensible, but he moved it right next to the microphone and then opened it. So when I was editing it it was like astonishingly loud. I had to do the thing in a garage band where you can adjust the volume anyway. Um, good, see you, ben. I'm eating a chocolate digestive which is I'm down to my last three from my last trip home. So it's a tough times over in manhattan the struggle is.
Speaker 3:The struggle is real tell me about it.
Speaker 1:So, sean dyche, uh, I think you know, if you look at it, I saw something, you know, sort of slightly funny the other day that we were actually safe in december. So you know the way it panned out. And these things happen right like the famous crystal palace game from a couple years ago where you know, two nil down three, two. No one really talks about this, but actually that result didn't matter. In the end we would have stayed up even if we'd lost that game. So, but you don't know, and obviously until you know so we in the end it wasn't even close. You know we avoided relegation very comfortably.
Speaker 1:Points deductions, by the way, we're going to talk about in a separate pod. We're going to do off-field stuff, but we're going to talk about 777 and mishiri and takeovers and points deductions and all that stuff. So we won't spend you know much time on it today. But I think we all agree he did a great job. But you know, ben, I'll ask I'll start with you tell me what you think you learned about daish this year and then maybe, as part of that, I guess, what he, what you think maybe he learned about himself and about Everton so let me I'll answer that.
Speaker 3:I'll answer the second bit first, because I think the thing he learned about Everton he's been fairly vocal about this actually is that I think he realized we're more of a basket case than he was necessarily sold when he started. Um, because if you read, he's given a couple of interviews and a couple of comments where he sort of said, you know, I'm not sure if you've listened to, uh, the bbc podcast, um, uh, nothing will be the same, which is definitely recommend anyone listening hasn't listened to it.
Speaker 3:It's excellent yeah, it's very good which is um by the bbc uh merseyside sport team um, but in that, in the interview he gives with Julia Bold, he talks about how his time in Burnley he could have probably written one book and in his time he's had so far at Everton he probably could write three, which I think speaks to the level of behind the scenes chaos that he's dealing with. So I think he's learned the level of the task that he is facing and the sort of the challenges that we have, which probably exceed any of his expectations when he came into the job. What have we learned about him? I think what I've my biggest takeaway? Um, I've got one positive takeaway, one sort of negative takeaway.
Speaker 3:My biggest positive takeaway is that he is astonishingly good at getting the best out of a limited group of players, because I think there are to your point, austin, if you look at we were, if we'd not got to, if we played the first 19 games I think it is I think it's the first 19 games we got 26 points. I think, after the deductions, we could have literally not got a point in the second half of the season and still stayed up right. So the fact that he got us to 40 points like including once you factor in the deductions, it was plus 40 points is a sign of just how well he did with a very limited group of players, because that squad, I think we can all agree, is not a squad that should be finishing necessarily 10th in the Premier League. I think if you go back to our pre-season predictions, you would have heard us all say you know we'll take 14th, 15th, 16th, avoid relegation, blah, blah, blah. So I've been really impressed with his ability to drill the players into a system, operate with limited resources, be very effective in certain phases of the game, like set pieces, and turn us into a team that is difficult to beat and gets results.
Speaker 3:The negative and I say this is like not something that I think is game-changing or like a massive problem. I've been surprised at how. I've been surprised at how unwilling he is to change, whether it's system or personnel, or whether it's system or personnel or whether it's. Can you guys still hear me? Yeah, sorry, you both sat very still. I wasn't sure if I'd bored you to tears. Leave this bit in.
Speaker 1:Carry on Professional as ever.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly right. Um, I I've been surprised it was so unwilling to change system and change personnel. And the other disappointing thing, and the one that really sticks in my mind about this, was the crystal palace game at goodison, where I was disappointed that he was unwilling to go a bit more attacking, go for the jugular a little bit in a game that was absolutely winnable against a really bad Crystal Palace team, and he essentially set us up to not lose and I think that's the as much as there is a. As you can point to a disappointment with Dyche, I think that's probably it. But equally, that way of setting us up also got us to, you know, 40 plus points once you account for the deduction. So it is a complaint amongst a lot of positives, but I think that would be.
Speaker 3:The other thing is, I think I wish he was a little bit more flexible looking at games going hey, we can be a bit more progressive, we can be a bit more attacking, we can be a bit more. The other thing I should say actually is that the other thing I've been really impressed with is that he is much smarter tactically than I think anyone, including this podcast, gave him credit for, because if you look at how he operates his press, it is an incredibly effective pressing system and it is intentional and he knows it's set up to trigger in a certain way in certain situations. So it I've been really impressed. He gets an unfair reputation as a long ball merchant and all that sort of stuff, but I'm pleased that he doesn't play like that and it's a bit more progressive and organised and tactically astute.
Speaker 1:So, adam, what have you learned about Daj dash this year? What do you think he's learned?
Speaker 2:I I agree with a lot of what ben said about the um, sort of the way that he's got a a below I'd say below comfortably, a below average group of players with very little creativity, uh, to play in a way that works and has been effective. Obviously Ben alluded to the press, which we've talked about a lot in the past, and how effective it is, because we've got sort of two ways of playing, which is to press with the likes of intelligent players like Decoray and gay and players like that who and we can win it, we win it high and then look to catch the opposition out, or we take advantage of set pieces, and one third of our goals have come from set pieces this year, which is the highest proportion in the Premier League, and that's, I mean, that's like I've said in the previous podcast about how that's not the sort of thing to be, that's not seen in the sort of the negative way that I think it's been seen in the past, because every single premier league team has a set piece coach. Um, you know, arsenal are scores by far the most premier league goals. Uh, in the um through through set pieces, and they saw that as a very specific way of scoring um, and that's that's testament to Daesh, because the way that obviously we set up to score set pieces obviously works. But what I will say is that we score one third of our goals through set pieces. That is correct in the sense that we obviously make set pieces of priority.
Speaker 2:But and I'm going to go back to that whole thing again I'm going to blow my XG klaxon because if you look at the XG for Everton, we are so far ahead of the team in second I think last time I looked, I think I've got the stats it's like it's got um r rxg uh. Difference, uh, between actual goals scored and goals scored is 20 uh, and the next highest just looking through here is, I can see is nine, which is Bournemouth. So we are over 100% more. The difference is 100% more than the team at second, which is absolutely astounding. So what that shows is that actually we are an effective team at creating chances. I don't think we're an effective team at creating chances from back to front. I think we're an effective team at creating chances by winning the ball high and then we don't take our chances. And you can talk to, you can name a number of games, particularly at the start of the season, like Fulham at home, wolves at home, where we didn't take those chances, and that again that's testing it to dice. It's like we're set up in a way that create these chances and the stats don't lie. Our players have not taken those chances.
Speaker 2:Um, and another interesting sort of stat that um helps to back up. My point is like that would have given us um if we obviously obviously you've got to take it into account because every other team has obviously had either benefited from more points than they should have done or not benefited from as many points as they should have done. But Everton would have, if they scored all those goals, that would have given us 53 points which, by an XG table, would have put us about 9th or 8th in the league. An XG table that is not the actual table. So to sort of round up my point, I think Dyche does an absolutely fantastic job with a very limited quality of players. Obviously in the next podcast we can go into like the sort of things that we need um, but I I mean I, I would go as far to say that it's absolutely incredible that he wasn't even not, he wasn't even mentioned in any sort of um, he wasn't even mentioned in any any conversation around. Manager of the year I agree.
Speaker 1:But I mean the Premier League, do an end of season wrap up video with 19 teams in it. Yes, I mean, like you know, I'm sure that they've written to us at some point and said dear Everton, by the way, fuck you the Premier League. And I wasn't even upset by that. I know a lot of people were upset, but I don't understand why. But I was like it's just so obvious. At this point We've just, like we were meant to be, the one that demonstrated look, everton got relegated because we took financial fair play seriously. That's how serious we are that this giant team got relegated and it didn't happen. And it's all coming back to bite them in exactly the way that we all predicted. So, you know, fuck the premier league. I mean, you know, I agree, but that's, I mean. That's why. Because you're right, the idea of dice doesn't get nominated. That is nonsensical. But we're just. Everton aren't going to get anything.
Speaker 1:I mean richard, what's his name? What's our ceo's name? Chong, what's his first name? I can't remember. Common, common, carmen Chong is going to turn up at the next board meeting. There's going to be 19 fucking seats around the table. You know, like they're just, it's so obvious that they are the Premier League, are fucking furious at the way that the whole season has played out for them Because we were meant to distract from the man City thing.
Speaker 1:You know we were the ones distract from the man city thing. You know they, they were we, they, we, they. We were the ones where we're taking it seriously and it hasn't played out that way. And now richard masters is his job is on the line anyway, so interesting. Come back to daishan you've sort of made an interesting point there that you know there's sort of two reasons why. You know you can think actually we ended up in a lower league position than his performance maybe deserved. One because we had eight points deducted, but then because there were 20 goals that we should have scored, that we didn't score. And you're saying that that is down to.
Speaker 2:That is basically the players, not the manager, right, like we, the xg you know the the xg is a is a reflection of him setting the team up to create chances and the players doing that, and the lack of actual goal scored is because we couldn't finish for the first half of the season yeah, and I think it's like Everton being incredibly unlucky because I think, like the top three, the top three goalkeeping performances of the season by, I think it was who scored, who ranked this sort of stuff were Jose Sarr, the Wolves goalkeeper, bern Leno, bern Leno, bern Leno and a third one whose name I can't remember. They were like the top three were all against Everton. So you've got to take that as an element, because it's not just Everton's players who are missing chances. Like, obviously, everton have benefited from Jordan Pickford saving far more shots than he should have done. Obviously, we had the fourth best defensive record and the second was it, yeah, fourth most offensive record? Was it fourth best clean sheet as well?
Speaker 2:Best clean sheet as well. Best number four sheets as well, I think, but our expected number of goals is higher, which indicates that Pickford is making saves that he has no right to make or he's not expected to make.
Speaker 1:And we've got you know it is an interesting point, isn't it? Because we've got you know Beto, we're not going to. We'll talk about the squad in more detail, obviously, you know another time. But you can sort of see it in in calvert, lou and having a season where only really got good at the end better, struggling to find his feet. But pickford, I think, had a brilliant season and you know it, he is gonna give you that edge. I mean, I think he's our best player, you know. So he's going to. That comes through in the stats. Ben, we talked a bit a bunch about tactics. One thing about team selection a little bit. What did you think of Dyche's team selections this year? And you know what would you have? You know what do you think he ended up getting things right? What do you think he should have done differently, you think?
Speaker 3:he ended up getting things right.
Speaker 1:What do you think he should have done differently?
Speaker 3:So I think generally the centre-back pairing worked really well and I think when Michael Enko was fit I thought he was tremendous and this doesn't speak to team selection per se, but I think actually it's to Dyche's credit that he has really developed Michael Enko clearly into a better left-back than the one he inherited, because I think he's certainly one of the best defensive left-backs for sure in the league. Calvert-lewin up front sorts himself out. My issue with Dyche is how he sets up the midfield, not from a formation point of view, tactical point of view, it's more a personnel choice and I worry that whether it speaks to a bit of a disconnect between the players that he thinks we need and the players that we're actually getting, because Onana predates, obviously predates Deitch, but it's obvious that he doesn't see Anana's skill set as fitting in with the types of midfielders that he wants, because the number of times where he would pick some combination of Garner, idrissa, garnagay and Decore ahead of Anana, even though Anana is by any reasonable measure, a better footballer than any of those players and will probably go on to sign for some enormous European club and look great in the Champions League. So it's slightly weird that he can't get into a Dyche-Everton team which speaks to the points earlier about how rigid Dyche is in how he wants to play, because he essentially appears to have decided that how he wants to play, which is he doesn't want his central midfielders to pick up the ball and carry it doesn't suit how Inanna doesn't want to play. So, rather than going, hey, I've got this really great footballer who can play a certain way, how do I use, how do I adapt my system to work around utilising his talents? He goes, well, he can't do the things I want him to do, or I don't value the things he can do. So therefore he doesn't play, and I think that speaks to a challenge.
Speaker 3:And then the other point I would say and Dan Juma is the ultimate example of this don't we don't know what goes on behind the scene and we don't know what he's like in training and all those caveats, but it concerns me that there was a. He was one of the few signings we made last summer. There was a push to get him and then he just didn't feature barely at all, even when we were in a position where, I mean, he was bringing Lewis Dobbin on. There was, I mean, there was a game at the end of the season where he quite literally played Michael Keane up front rather than bring Dan Juma on.
Speaker 3:So my worry is about is there a disconnect between what Kevin Thelwell is delivering and what Sean Dyche wants? And, secondarily to that, how rigid is Dyche in the sense that he wants certain types of players and therefore he's almost willing to cut his nose off to spite his face by not picking quote-unquote better players because they don't fit his system. And that works both ways. You can go hey, actually he's got a really good system and he picks the players that fit that system, but I think it does. It does speak to a limitation when you can't take a player like Amadou Inanna and get him into your team, because for me you should be building your team around someone like Amadou Inanna. And it's a little bit like there's an expression in American football about don't tell me what a player can't do. Tell me what he can do and we'll build around that. So don't tell me he's not strong enough or fast enough or quick enough or he's ball control. Tell me what he does do and we'll build around that.
Speaker 3:And I feel like Dyche is a little bit the other way, where he goes well. He doesn't do the things I want him to do. So I don't want to play him same with Nathan Patterson on the right, right back. So we ended up in this situation where Ashley Young was sort of went through that period of the season where he was getting regularly destroyed on the right hand side, giving away fouls, giving away penalties, got sent off against Liverpool in the derby because Dyche, for whatever reason, thinks that he's a better option than Nathan Patterson. Because Nathan Patterson, I don't know, isn't tactically in the right place 100% of the time or isn't disciplined enough or doesn't, unless I don't know, isn't tactically in the right place 100% of the time or isn't disciplined enough. I don't know what it is. But I think he's done a great job with the defence generally. I think he's got Calvert-Lewin fit and playing and done that well. I have an issue with how he sort of set up the midfield, which I think speaks to the rigidity point that I raised earlier.
Speaker 1:I mean he might say Dyche might say in response to that, hypothetically, that you know well, the job was to keep everything in the premier league and that mattered so much that I just couldn't take risks. And you know onana represents, who is no doubt a very talented footballer. Patterson similarly does represent a risk and Dan Juma potentially as well. We didn't see enough of him to know, but you know, I guess you got to take that into account as well. Right that he's. You know his job was to try and get. He knew if he averaged a point a game this season it'd probably be all right not go not including know, taking into account points, deductions which weren't in anyone's plan.
Speaker 1:So he's been naturally conservative and cautious, which can be. I mean, gets to your point about the Crystal Palace game. You know there are times when you do want him to be more ambitious, but he's obviously limited by that. Adam thoughts on that. Thoughts on team selection.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think team selection has obviously been, overall, very, very effective. He's obviously got the way that he wants to play and by and large, it's worked, obviously the derby being the most clear example of that, of the way of playing and how effective it can be. But I do agree with Ben. I think there's been instances, individual games, the Palace game obviously being the most striking one. I was at that game and it was as garbage as Ben described it and as frustrating as he described it as well. And I think Inanna is the perfect example of that, because he's comfortably our most technically gifted midfielder and he is a very. I think he's going to be absolutely fantastic. I can just see that someone's a top. He'll end up playing for a top European club. I've no doubt about that. I think he's absolutely brilliant because I think he's such a, he's got so many skills. He can win the ball, he can drive forward, he's got a great passing range. But he's also got really, really good vision, vision. And there's been a number of times in games where he's come on and he has just like cut. He's cut through a play, an opposition midfield, just with one forward pass. Um, I think it was against uh, it was against um, it was one of the two games when calvert lewin didn't get the penalty when he got his shins taken out from under him and that, um, I can't remember who that was against now, but but that came from anana receiving the ball about 40 yards out and cutting a pass straight through to calvert lewin and he was basically one-on-one with the defender and should have got a penalty from it. Um, and I would like to see, and I would have liked to see Dyche try and use more of his skill set in games but also trying to utilize the things that he actually does bring to a Dyche system, which is being very energetic, he's intelligent on the ball and he will win the ball back. He will win the ball back. Um, now, you know, obviously we'll talk about the squad more in the next podcast, but, um, you know it'd be quite.
Speaker 2:He's one of our most saleable, sellable assets. Um, uh, and personally, unfortunately, because I think he's, I think I really really like him, um, and I think I think he's not, he seems like a really nice, good guy to have around. You know he's like. You know he tries to get the crowd going. He's obviously got a nice. He obviously understands the importance of the fans and stuff and I think, even though he's what 20, 21, 22, he's got a very mature head on his shoulders. So, yeah, I think Anand has been a bit of a frustration in that sense. So, yeah, I think Anand has been a bit of a frustration in that sense and I think, yeah, dan Juma is sort of the other example that Ben's rightly made. He's very obviously, very fixated on how he wants to play and any player who doesn't necessarily work towards that the team is more than the sum of its parts. It's like if you don't necessarily fit into that or you bring a bit of creativity and things, it's like he doesn't know how to utilise creativity.
Speaker 2:When Burnley finished seventh in the league, they did it very, very well but they had a bog standard, 4-4-2, and you wouldn't have been putting any of their players' posters up on your wall if you were a kid. Put it that way. They were pretty average players who were played in a system that worked and they became more than the sum of their parts. And I think Everton are in a similar position and it's just and you sort of you know we are where we are. This is the third time we've had to avoid relegation and have done so, you know less in this season. Obviously, did it with a few games to spare and did it you know by what effectively ended up being what? 14 points if you take away the deduction, so actually more than that. Wasn't it 24? No, sorry, no, yeah, no, 22 points. It was 22 points, yeah, quick maths.
Speaker 2:So I would like to see him be a little bit more accommodating of some players.
Speaker 2:And I think the third and I didn't really think about it until Ben said, but you know, the third, the sort of you wonder what sort of a sporting director or director of football, however you want to tell it they have to and I've said this before they have to have the same philosophy about how they want the team to play.
Speaker 2:Otherwise it doesn't work and we've seen Everton fall apart because of that in the past, because the manager wants to play one way and then the director of football is trying to assign players that play another way or fit into a different system, or there's personalities aren't right, et cetera, et cetera. So I think that Dan Juma was a really good example that Ben gave was where he's obviously a flair player who didn't really appear to be the sort of player that Dyche will really know he either doesn't want or doesn't know how to use most effectively. Yeah, so next season I would like to see you know if he's still here, you know Inanna play a lot more. I think that would be a real. That's something that we need to see a lot more of, because I think he's comfortably our best midfielder and I think he's comfortably our best outfield player as well. Overall, Interesting.
Speaker 1:It leads me to where I wanted to go next, quite beautifully add. So you mentioned Inanna playing more. What else do you want to see from Dyche next year, separately to transfers and things which we'll deal with, obviously? But what else would you like to see from Dyche next year, separately to transfers and things which we'll deal with, obviously? But what else would you like to see Dyche do slightly differently next year or very differently next year?
Speaker 2:I'd like to see it be a little bit more creative. I think it's only natural, now that we've comfortably avoided relegation, to want to see a little bit you know, a bit more of a passing team. Not necessarily you know the sort of, not necessarily the sort of teams that we, that you see back to front I don't think we're ever going to be like that under Dyche and that you know. That's just not realistic and not necessarily something I want to see. But it would be nice to see a little bit more creativity in midfield where, particularly midfield, and you have players who, like he got, you know, like jack harrison is quite clearly quite a skillful, creative player, but his best attribute seemed to be, um, how trustworthy he was in the press and how trustworthy he was in the press and how trustworthy he was to help his right back out, because he scored four goals and I don't know I can't top my head how many assists he got, but his goal contributions were not very high and McNeil had a lot more success. But I would like. So yeah, I'd like to see a little bit more creativity, but in terms of like the system that we play, I think I quite like the system that we play, you know, one striker with five in midfield and whatever combination that is.
Speaker 2:I think the high press is really effective and I think that is something that I'd like to continue, and obviously it's something that a lot of teams try and utilise. But I think the high press is really effective and I think that that is something that I'd like to like to continue, and obviously it's something that a lot of teams try and utilize, but I think Everton do it. I think Everton do it really really well. Um, so that'd be something that I'd like to carry on seeing, but to be honest, I mean, I imagine that I'm just so fatigued from, like, fighting relegation for the last three seasons, like it's like, you know, I don't know what, I don't know what. I would want better than this yeah, yeah, you know you're right.
Speaker 1:I was thinking about this the other day. I was talking to a mate of mine over here about what it's been like and I remember, you know, last season not the last season, not the last season, the one which ended, the one before that I didn't I can't remember how I wasn't just tearing my hair out because I was, you know, against the Bournemouth game, because at halftime of that Bournemouth game we were relegated. You know, that's how close it was. That was a proper, you know, barry Hall moment when Decore scored. And the year before that, obviously, we had the Crystal Palace game, where I can't remember if I talked about this at the time, but I was away. I was away at what was meant to be like a fucking relaxation retreat in the middle of the night.
Speaker 1:I like it was literally it's like a yogi, you know and I distinctly remember watching the game and I stopped watching when we went 2-0 down and then I started watching again when we I got an alert on my phone we'd scored and I went back to bed. It was the middle of the day but I closed the curtains and I remember, when I was closing the curtains, there was someone outside, across the way from the, from the room, like banging a giant gong, and all these people were like doing a meditation. I was, I had never felt so stressed in my entire fucking life. It is, I mean, you know it is a. It is a long way. So, ben, what are you thinking about? You know we've covered we've covered it in honor a bunch. But so, beyond that, like, what else do you want to? What do you want to see from dash? What do you want him to do differently next year?
Speaker 3:I think tactically not very much, because I think actually his system works and it works well. I would like us to be a bit more progressive in the midfield about um, about how he moved the ball and I don't want to sort of go back to the Inanna debate, but that he's a big part of that. I would like to see him give Nathan Patterson try and debate, develop Patterson on the right in the same way that he's developed Michael Enko on the on on the left hand side, because I think having a balance back four and having someone of Patterson's physical ability would be really really good in terms of our attacking potential as well if you can unlock that in the same way. Um, the other thing I actually want to see. So I've increasingly come to the belief that his best position is in the middle. I want dwight mcneil to play more in the center because if you look at how he plays, he's I mean he's he's got a great left foot, but he's slower than treacle right like he. He's got a great left foot but he's slower than Treacle right Like. He's not a winger by any stretch of the imagination because he's got no pace. So whereas if you look at how he plays when he gets in the middle of the field and he can, you know, play that through ball or hit the shots, like he did against Forrest. So I want to see him get into those positions a bit more Now, whether you do that by flipping him with Harrison and playing him on the right where he can cut in, or whether you play him actually in the Decore role, because I think there is also and this speaks to another thing I would like to see.
Speaker 3:I think we are transitioning away from Decore being like the most useful player in that position. Post his injury. He didn't look like his old self at all and I think when you're so reliant on that position in your team to get the goals, decore just didn't look up to it and he's never been like the best technical player. So I think I would like to see McNeil played a little bit more, whether it's on the right or actually in that Decoray role, in a position where he can influence the game in the middle of the pitch, just that area outside the 18-yard box. I would like to see that a little bit more. That obviously relies on us signing any of the wingers and having the confidence that we can play anybody else on the wings, but if you were saying to me like, like, what's the tactical thing I would like to see dwight mcneil in the middle is some is something that I would um like see, I was actually reminded the other day because um everton tweeted one of their sort of on this day 12 years ago. Whatever it was, um, the game I was at actually was was everton portsmouth on the on the final day when billykdinov scored a great goal.
Speaker 3:And I realised that Dwight McNeil reminds me quite a lot of Billy Alekdinov Not quick, great left foot can spot a pass. Actually, I think his best work is done when he's in the middle of the field and we never gave Billy the chance to play in that role and I think we missed a trick, because I think playing in that role would have got far more potential than playing on the left. And I think the same about McNeil. I think he's actually much better if he's, if he's influencing the game in the middle of the, that sort of middle third um, sorry, middle third of the center of the field, rather than being stuck out on the wing because he can cross the ball but he's never going to beat a man, and he's never going to be the one who, like you know, unlocks anything or beat someone with a skill or pace or whatever. So he's sort of wasted on the wing yeah he does, I will miss.
Speaker 2:I will miss, like mcneil just trying to whip in a cross when he's just when he's, when he's surrounded by an absolute horde of defenders, because I mean, that's, that's like the dice sort of playing for a corner very comes into its own. There was one point when one game I was watching and he literally had three players between himself and the box and he still tried to whip in a cross, got a corner out of it. So it worked.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, you're right, and it's because he's and ben, you know, the point you make about the sort of shooting I think is interesting because it does. I think I think he's like going about like where's your like advantage? Right, like what are you disparate? What? How can a particular player disproportionately impact a game? And I would say I think his delivery from set pieces is very good. I think it is his shooting he's. He's really very good at a shot from 20 to 25 yards, you know, and that gives teams something to think about.
Speaker 1:If you've got a player that drops in between defense, between those two lines who can shoot, you've got to close him down. And you've probably got to close him down with more than one player which is going to create spaces for other people. And I think I sort of started to appreciate that more and more. But one of the reasons I think Adrissa Garnagay scored a couple of goals before the end of the season is other teams had very sensibly stopped closing him down. So I mean he went through a phase, phase about three months, right, you think he was playing rugby, I mean he just everything went over the bar and then obviously he scored a couple towards the end. But if you look back at them, he had loads of time and space because no one was bothered, whereas mcneil people are going to close him down. So I think that's uh, it's a really interesting point.
Speaker 1:Just on the on the tactical playing out from the back thing, do you guys feel that the sort of maybe a bit of unfairness there and obviously I'm saying this because I do, because I was particularly paying attention to the game even at the arsenal game, the last game of the season, where you know we all predicted we were going to get walloped, you know, and we didn't at all. I mean, you know, we, we, we should have drawn that game, I mean the. I mean we're not reviewing it explicitly, but you know that goal should never have counted. Their second goal, I mean it's a ludicrous decision for me that that was not given as a handball. I mean his arm doesn't move, but his entire body did, and his arms. It was absolutely bad, but it doesn't matter now.
Speaker 1:But there were a lot of times during that game actually where we got the ball at the back and actually did play it out. Now, we didn't play it out side to side, it was always, basically, if there was like a way to go forwards. They would take it, but they weren't just walloping it. And that was against Arsenal, where you know you're not going to try and outplay them and you're not going to. So I just wondered yeah, I think that's maybe like a little bit of a because of who does, she is and how he is that there's a, there's a prior there which maybe doesn't actually match the reality.
Speaker 2:I think, um, yeah, I mean I didn't want to imply that, like when I said earlier about we're not going to be a team that plays out for the back in terms of what other teams do, I didn't want to imply that we don't. I think we do, because we absolutely don't just play it long, I agree. I think we do try and pass through midfield where possible. I just think we do it a little bit, maybe more direct than other teams. I think those, like we might play longer passes rather than long balls, and I think there's a difference there where you know we'll play a pass that might be cross field or from a centre back up to Calvert-Lewin, but we're not doing like you know, late 90s, you know, aiming up to Duncan Ferguson trying to aim. We're not. We're not doing like you know late 90s done, you know, aiming up to duncan ferguson trying to aim for the channels, win throw-ins and just win yards that way. That's not what we're trying to do.
Speaker 2:Um, and dice just demonstrated himself to be a very astute, astute tactician. And who's to say that? You know, given better creative players, if you know that's what the him and thal will want to try and trying to adopt that he can't. He can't do that. He's clearly a very intelligent tactician, and teams and managers do change their approaches. Change their approaches, or well, or don't change their approaches and end up landing the Bayern Munich job if you're Vincent Kompany.
Speaker 1:That's wild, isn't it. Absolutely wild.
Speaker 3:And also, have you seen? Have you seen who is being linked to replace him in the Athletic today?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:One Frank Lampard Thoughts and prides with Burnley.
Speaker 1:There's just no one in that chain of events is qualified. Are they A lot of time for? Frank Lampard Obviously a really good guy Good human, not a terrible manager. Good human, not a terrible manager, but not a great one either shouldn't be one of the top 20 or 30 football managers in the country, just shouldn't? We all know why he's getting the jobs? What's Vincent Compagnet possibly done at Burnley to prove he's qualified for one of Europe's elite teams? I mean, it's bonkers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's. I mean, it's like a new, there's a new thing, isn't it Like failing upwards?
Speaker 1:Oh, don't do that, it is.
Speaker 2:I mean the cynic in me like says that he's done that to sort of try and prove that he can get a team to play a particular way, or he wants his team to play a particular way, but they didn't stay up. They didn't not stay up by a lot. If he just changed his style ever so slightly, they would have stayed in the league.
Speaker 3:But also the idea that I'm not wanting to turn this into a Burnley podcast. Oh, let's do it. They were bad at playing the style that he wanted them to play. It wasn't like, hey, they're really good at this, but they just don't have the players. They were actively bad. I mean, we were watching the game against Burnley at Goodison and I remember we were WhatsAppping at the time and Austin, I think, said these guys are just going to give you the ball in their back three four or five times a game.
Speaker 3:The system is bad. It's like this myth that he's playing this beautiful, wonderful style of football. No, he's playing. It's bad football. It's bad. It doesn't work Like it's just bizarre.
Speaker 1:I reckon I remember watching that game, I remember that exchange and I remember watching them. I watched them for about 10 minutes and they gave the ball away three times, like in their defensive third, and I'm like, well, you just I mean you are going to get murdered in the Premier League if you're doing that. So the naivety of a manager to sort of not see that that needs to change is like.
Speaker 2:That's the exact point, isn't it? It is naivety of not going right. This doesn't work. I want to play a particular way, but I don't have the players to do that, so I need to be tactically flexible in order to do that. But also, he's going into the Bayern Munich job knowing that he's quite literally sixth. He was about sixth on their list, but they went through him and they asked Tuchel to stay twice, and he's coming down. So I mean, god knows what the Bayern Munich players think of that, because that is a powerful dressing room.
Speaker 1:You'll get mulled over that. I mean it's just not going to work, is it All right? Anything else on Daishi before we wrap this up?
Speaker 3:the tracksuit works. I think there are a lot of Everton fans who need to eat some humble pie from the run that we went on in the middle of the season when they were talking about like and you know Twitter is not Britain to quote a famous former Prime Minister the level of he needs to go. He needs to be sacked out the door now. Doesn't know what he's doing when we were in that bad run was embarrassing, given the circumstances that we were in as a club and the hand that he was dealt with. I think I've said this on the podcast a couple of times before, but we should be naming a fucking stand after sean dyche, because frank lampard gets us relegated, rafa benitez gets us relegated, like in this same situation, without a shadow of a doubt. I think dyche and you know this is potentially damning with faint praise, but, like dyche reminds me a lot of how David Moyes operated at Everton, where it's never going to be liquid football. It's never going to be the you know the the most glorious attacking. Where is it? But he's going to set up a team very well tactically, everyone's going to know their jobs and they're going to deliver on that and he's going to he's going to consistently have you achieving above your station and for where we are as a football club. Give me that for the next two, three years, comfortably, like if we finish every. If we finish the next two seasons, three seasons between 10th and 15th, great are my ambitions for everton football club. Higher than that? Yeah, of course they are, but like we are. Well, I think, austin.
Speaker 3:Austin, you said your your football manager. Saved currently is everton and you inherited them in a disastrous financial situation. Right, we are in a disastrous financial situation. We've got an owner who's trying to sell the club and he's apparently trying to sell it to the dodgiest people on the fucking planet. We've got a squad that is threadbare. We've got we're trying, we're about to move into a new stadium which we haven't worked out how we're going to fully pay for yet. Like we are, we are lucky that sean dyche is our manager and is in a position where he's going to keep us in the premier league, and we should thank our blessings that he A took the job and, b that the people who were saying midway through the season we needed to sack him are not in charge of anything more important than the kettle in their own house.
Speaker 1:Funny you joke about boys, because do you remember when the old joke about Everton was we would always finish seventh? I mean the Guardian called it the Everton Cup. The Everton Cup, I mean bring back the glory days of the Everton Cup. This is Moyes' record at Everton in terms of league finishes. So came in 2001-2002. So first four seasons, starting with 2002-2003. Seventh, first season, seventeenth, second season. Remember that dodgy Fourth. Fuck you, pierre, luigi colina, um 11th, 7th, 5th, 5th, 8th, 7th, 7th, 6th, 7th, like sign me up like I mean it's just it's like and you're right because he does, you know it's like there is no reason at all why.
Speaker 1:You know, I'm not that whatever I don't think many Everton fans wanted him to, to, to go, but the the, the way we have fallen since then is like absolutely just incredible.
Speaker 2:You know, absolutely, we we played some pretty good stuff under Moyes. I mean, obviously that's like the most, that we played some pretty good stuff under Moyes. I mean obviously that's like the most. That was easily like that. That era from like 2006 to 2011 is comfortably like the most enjoyable era of my time watching Everton, a time when in my life, when I could fortunately go to quite a lot of games and, yeah, it was brilliant. So like yeah, I remember saying at the time, and like the idea of like sacking Dyche, it's like well, who do you bring in then? Dickhead and the stats don't lie Like Everton should be doing, should have done a lot better in the league than they ended up doing and had done throughout a lot of the season.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and if you go forward beyond when Moyes was managed, to the subsequent years, 6th, 5th, that's Martinez Moshiri takes over at this point 11th, 11th, 7th, 8th, 5th that's Martinez Moshiri takes over at this point 11th, 11th, 7th, 8th, 8th, 12th, 10th, 16th, 17th, 15th. So you know, it reminds me it's a recent problem, but you know, like that kind of you know, we did have for a long time a level of stability that we've completely lost.
Speaker 3:Can I interrupt with some breaking news Non-football related.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Donald Trump guilty on all 34 charges in New York.
Speaker 2:What the hell I found it was. I saw the BBC News thing, I didn't, oh hey.
Speaker 1:Oh, I should head out to the streets of New York. I don't want to be a party.
Speaker 3:That seems like another way to wrap up the podcast, right oh, what a happy day, cheeto, jesus.
Speaker 1:Um, all right, we're gonna wrap it up. Uh, we'll be back and if we don't know, we're gonna record these in a bunch. We'll put them out over. The plan is to put them out between now when the euro starts. So that's over the couple weeks. So in a few days we'll drop the next episode. But, uh, you know, thanks for listening, subscribe, follow wherever you get your podcasts. We're there, tell an everton supporting friend, um, and you know, have a good time, enjoy the summer. I hope everyone does something, does something fun, spends time with their loved ones. Um, thank you for listening. We'll see you next time.