This week, we're rolling up our sleeves for a rollercoaster ride through Everton's relegation fight. April's got us in a twist with seven matches that are going to define our season, starting today with Bournemouth at home. Dive in for our take on the Toffees' great escape.
This week, we're rolling up our sleeves for a rollercoaster ride through Everton's relegation fight. April's got us in a twist with seven matches that are going to define our season, starting today with Bournemouth at home. Dive in for our take on the Toffees' great escape.
Welcome to episode 71 of the Blues Brothers Everton podcast. Good to be back alongside Everton, who are back tomorrow. We recording this on friday the 29th, so happy easter to those who celebrate. Um, I've enjoyed a day off for good friday. Uh, adam has as well, but has been working and andrew's been properly working. So, um, my apologies to you guys who are having to do this late, and I've had a busier day than I have. Um, ben's not here today. Uh, he's got something involving being a dad. I have no idea, uh, but that's, that was his excuse and he's. He's sticking to it. Um, adam, how you doing?
Speaker 3:I'm very well, thanks. Yeah, I'm enjoying the uh, you know, first day off of um of the Easter holidays and, you know, as as you, as you said and sort of implied that my work wasn't real work, maybe jokingly, maybe it didn't mean real work.
Speaker 1:No, no, no at all. I think of all of them. I mean the four of us. You two have actual jobs, me and Ben have like nonsense beat-up jobs. So I don't think I would ever dare imply that.
Speaker 3:No, I think to be fair, I think it was just the order of the set. The way the sentence was laid out suggested that and Andrew's doing real work. Yeah, I'm sure it won't be like that every day, but yeah, it's good to get things ticked off the list early on though, and then hopefully I can enjoy some time off.
Speaker 2:Great, awesome, andy, how are you? How you doing? I'm good, thank you, yeah, I um. It's nice to be um back on a pod again. Obviously wasn't able to uh participate in the last one, which I enjoyed listening to, um, so, yeah, looking forward to uh chatting everton stuff for an hour or so awesome.
Speaker 1:I wonder who downloaded the last one. Now, we know.
Speaker 2:You did yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not true. Actually, quite a lot of people listen to this, remarkably. All right, so we're recording this Friday. Everton have been off for three weeks, as have we, and we're back, but we're back with a nuts schedule. We're going to talk about, uh, seven games before the end of april which, uh, we're going to go through them are going to be pretty important. So we're going to talk about that quite a lot today, I think.
Speaker 1:And, uh, we want to start though, with because we sort of have to, although it pains us to do it with psr and points deductions. Um, since we last were here, I think the forest news has come since we were last here, I think I could. Berest news has come since we were last here I think I could be wrong about that Forrest been deducted four points. Everton have, I think, now had their second hearing. I think it was earlier this week. So we would expect to hear the answer on that in the next couple weeks. With the way these things have worked previously, once again, you know the league table at the bottom is, you know, being almost entirely determined by the outcome of these panels and the hearings. And then we've got the situation, obviously, with Leicester again as well, which is even more complicated, believe it or not, and the one us and Forrester. And so, adam, I'll start with you what's your take on the Forrest situation and and what you think the implications might be for for Everton and the rest of the league?
Speaker 3:um, I think it's, you know, rather unfair on on uh, on Everton because, um, and this is nothing against Nottingham Forrest, I think they've just simply benefited from being second in this sort of process. I think we've, we've worked lyrical over the past few months about the process, or lack of process, of the premier league and the you know parameters and lack of parameters that they've put in and uh, to try and guide, guide the independent commissions through this, through this sort of process and, as um, you know, as our, as our appeal showed, you know, we got a 40 reduction in in the initial, initial thing. So they, the independent commissions, have been shown, at least in the first instance, that they are, you know, they, they interpreted the law incorrectly, um, and that's based on the Premier League's lack of clarity and we've talked a lot about that. So I think you know Forrest have said that they feel that they're, you know they've been harshly done by getting four points and, to break it down, they got six points for the breach, which I think it's fair to say now is the basic, that's the sort of first rung on the ladder, that you will get six points regardless of how much you go over. I think that's you know, and obviously Everton got that.
Speaker 3:The Premier League sort of denied that that was the case, but that's what Everton ended up getting with their 10 points initially, and then they got two taken away through, sort of because they were very open and you know they were open and honest and worked with the Premier League. I yeah, I think I mean Forrest in particular I think that's a fair, I think it's a fair punishment would be the six points. If you're going to use Everton as the barometer of these things and you know you can argue whether that six points is initially fair in the first place. But to give Forest like two points off because of how open and honest they were, when it seems to me that Everton were quite open and honest as well, and one of the key aspects of Forrest's sort of pro that will be their legal, that will be their appeals process and their defence was that they wanted to sell. They would have sold Brendan Johnson earlier and he ended up going. But it would have meant that they would have sold Brennan Johnson earlier, um, and he ended up going, um, but it would have meant that they would have to accept a lower fee from uh, I think it was Brentford and they ended up selling them on September 1st for about 47 million to Spurs. Now Everton were in that exact same position with Richarlison, um for the with the exact same club everton got.
Speaker 3:Was it 60 million or potentially 60 million for a charleston and you know, you can, you can make a good case that he is a 60, a plus 60 million pound player in the current market and not forest's defense is is is quite incredible that that's the sort of thing they were putting forward. It's like they're saying like, oh, we're a bit, but a business. And some of the fans were trying to argue and say like, but that's what a business should do. It's trying to maximize its profits. It's like, well, all right, try and tell hmrc that I'm I'm a plumber. And I go like, oh, I've got this job. And it's like a few days after the tax thing, do you mind if I just put them in a bit early so I can make a bit more money? Please, let me show, I'll see you're going.
Speaker 1:So you're going, go and run well, it's interesting, there's an interesting perspective. There isn't that because you're right and like they. They got two points back because they were like, yeah, they were cooperative. Now, and the brennan johnson thing says that they were cooperative to the point where they knew what they were doing when they did it Exactly, and that doesn't appear to be a problem, right? So you don't appear to get punished more, which you would normally in the course of legal stuff, and none of us are lawyers, but we live in the world and you know it's sort of a wide understood thing. If you do something intentionally, that is worse than doing it unintentionally Right, intent matters. If you do something intentionally, that is worse than doing it unintentionally. Right, intent matters in the law and they're basically saying, yeah, we knew we were breaching, but we were doing, but when we did this, but we did it, and then the premier go well, no, you were really honest about that. So I have two points back.
Speaker 2:So because, to take, to take that point to its nth degree, it's the opposite of what happens, um, in murder and manslaughter cases, isn't it? Because obviously it's like somebody was found deliberately killing somebody deliberately and not being prosecuted for murder and somehow being rewarded by you know and given a reduction in their sentence. Because it's completely arse about it. It really is, but again, it just yeah, sorry, yeah, it just again.
Speaker 3:It just serves the serves, the um serves to the point that we've made in the last podcast where we talked about how you've got this independent commission, which is you know you can use the word independent in inverted commas because they've got this independent commission which is, you know you can use the word independent in inverted commas, because they've got these people that are interpreting these guidelines in very different, in very different ways. An independent commission said that 10 points would have been fair for Everton when the Premier League predicated that of having 12 points, predicated that of having 12 points. And then, you know, the Premier League recommended eight points, for I'm sure I read that they recommended eight points for Forrest. I don't think that was made public until after the, until after the commission's ruling. Then they gave six and then awarded two.
Speaker 3:But yeah, you're absolutely right, it's like they weren't honest about. They weren't honest about the thing. They literally tried to cheat the process. Yeah, it's like they. They must have known at the point when the when in in june, when, when the account, when you had to submit your accounts or the next accounting window started in june, that oh shit, we've still got. We've still got brendan johnson like they must. They must have known, because they had the choice of selling him beforehand and they chose not to um about it.
Speaker 1:I mean you sort of get to thinking that like there shouldn't really be mitigations at all. Right, because you know you, you could, I could get on board with a system that said you overspend by. There's some formula which is, if you overspend, we could have sold this player then, or actually we, we wrote a bet. I mean, you know, baz from Toffee TV was on the Sky fan debate, the overlap fan debate, which is great. It's become my favorite sort of football show that the Gary Neville show and, like you know, baz was on there and he said, basically, forrest wrote a better email to the Premier League, so they get two points back Now. And you say, basically, forrest wrote a better email to the Premier League, so they get two points back.
Speaker 1:Now imagine if you're Luton Town and they go down by a point and you're like well, that judgment was the entire reason for us being in the Premier League or not. It's kind of ludicrous. You'd almost rather have a system where you say it doesn't matter whether you cooperate, don't cooperate, do whatever. It is a purely factual process. Did you spend x amount of money? Therefore, you lose y number of points because the other interesting thing that came from the fan debate where they were talking about this is the guy who's on there was the forest fan. These are all people who are like. You know podcast, youtube.
Speaker 1:People from the clubs said basically he thinks forest made the right judgment because if they hadn't have spent all that money, they wouldn't have stayed in the league. And actually, four points. You know we'll probably make that up by having you know like, but it's basically worth it now that if you're the premier league, that should scare the shit out of you, because if, if you're creating a system where the clubs are going to be like yeah, okay, we'll just pay the price in points because it's not that big a deal, that's a real problem absolutely, that's a massive problem because it's then the off-field equivalent of a tactical foul to break up a promising counter-attack by the opposition, isn't it?
Speaker 2:And managers treating yellow cards as being part of the game. I mean, I'm convinced now, having listened to lots of debate and lots of people talk about it, my understanding is the clubs lots of people talk about it my understanding is the clubs that you know, when they voted the PSR rules in, didn't want a regimented regime of sanction. But I'm convinced they didn't fully understand the circumstances of what might happen. Um, you know around that, and obviously the chaos that's engulfing the bottom of the premier league now is is testament to the fact that a proper regimented sanctions regime would offer clarity. Yeah, now it would have to be robust enough to make sure that clubs didn't take the mickey in the manner that you've just described.
Speaker 2:Austin, where the clubs are gonna go, yeah, we can overspend, and the player that we overspend by gets us enough points to outweigh any potential points deductions. So therefore it's worth doing, because the current situation is just absolutely untenable. I mean, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that we could enter May and Forrest would still have to have their appeal heard. We might appeal our second hearing, depending on what the outcome of that is. And then, as you say, you've got clubs at the bottom. One of the biggest things in Sky's coverage of the Premier League is the race for survival, the battle to stay in the Premier League. The biggest things in sort of, you know, sky's coverage of the premier league is that, you know, race for survival, the battle to stay in the premier league.
Speaker 1:Well, this season that could be rendered meaningless on the last day I think you're right and I don't think there's a chance that it isn't. Because, if you think about it, right that forest have appealed ever unless everton get no nothing, unless the answer the commission is you have no punishment, which I cannot see, then Everton are going to appeal as well, because why would you not? The cost of appealing is you've got to pay some lawyers, right?
Speaker 2:The only thing about that is if Everton were to get I mean first we don't know how big Everton's breach is first it could be relatively, it could be six million pounds. Be relatively, it could be six million pounds, yeah now. Now I accept adam's point that you know a minimum, you know six point um penalty for merely breaching is the benchmark. But if you looked I don't see if everton's breach is on the relatively small side and obviously I'm speculating because we don't know. But if it is on the small, then you would imagine that we couldn't get more than three points for that, in which case the club might go well. If Everton get two or three, they might go well. But why would you not feel?
Speaker 1:yeah, well, you know, because I understand, like I agree, but like you, because I mean, I think, I mean I guess the answer is answer my question that in theory, I think an appeal can actually increase your punishment. I think yeah, because it is a re-review, basically, of another panel. I don't think it's the case that it can only be reduced, but I'd be very surprised if we, maybe, if we got one point, they might go okay, it's not worth it. But if it's like two or three, I'd be very surprised if we, maybe, if we got one point, they might go okay, it's not worth it, but if it's like two or three, I'd be surprised. I just think that they've created a system where you almost want to sort of do the appeal at the same time, like you could almost say, well, we're going to have two panels. Right, take the average. You know what I mean, because you are going to, you are going to appeal, but when people are convicted of crimes, you can't just appeal anything and look, I'm sounding like I'm a lawyer, I'm really not, but I've spent enough time around them. You have to appeal on some basis of law, right? You can't appeal that you just don't like the decision a jury gave to find you guilty. I want another go. You've got to point out that there's some question that the process wasn't followed. This isn't the case here. They have an automatic right to appeal, which again actually doesn't make any sense. So I think they probably will.
Speaker 1:So to fast forward to your point, andy, which I completely agree with, I cannot see a situation, the only situation, where it's not going to be wrapped up in litigation and you know, at the end of the year and be a whole a complete clusterfuck, is if the gap between the third bottom team if it's luton is more than between them and the next team up, is more than the number of points that team got deducted. Yeah, like that, that's the, it's that. And I can't see that because ever's in a pro, we're gonna end up with, like what? Seven or eight points deducted. Are we gonna finish seven or eight points ahead of maybe, maybe not, you know, like forest four, like they? It's very, very unlikely.
Speaker 1:So not only are you gonna, as you rightly say, the drama is gonna be gone entirely, because the on-field stuff is going to not matter. In the same way I said this all the way through you are going to have a summer of people suing people as well. Because if you're Luton and you get relegated by one point because the Premier League gave Nottingham Forest two points back in a mitigation which they applied in one case for us but not in another case everton because everton were found in our appeal to have cooperated but were not given any points back for mitigation for that, then you're gonna lutein, are gonna go. Well, you know that's that I'm gonna sue you for the the financial impact of being relegated because you've not treated me fairly. So I think the premier league are heading full on to.
Speaker 3:I can't see how there isn't a situation over the summer where there are just court cases and it's a complete mess I can't remember any point of the last few years where um, where the, where the teams it's not gone down into, like the last, the last game of the season or the last two games of the season, ie, where the gap has been more than six points.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can't remember any time of that where it's been like that no, I can't recall any any season where that scenario has happened. Obviously there's been cases where the team finishing bottom and second bottom have been cut or drift. Certainly the team finishing bottom, yeah, but bottom have been cut adrift, certainly the team finishing bottom, but there's always been a relatively small gap between the club in 17th and 18th, sometimes by goal difference, obviously, as we found out in the 97-98 season. So, yeah, I agree with Austin entirely and the thing as well. I mean this is really bad. You know the Premier League, you know copyright, the best league in the world is. You know this is really bad for their brand and their business model and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2:Because I can remember when I first started watching first memories of football in the late 80s, the Italian league was where all the big money was and where all the big players went to and that was the league in Europe that had the most prestige and then various.
Speaker 2:You know everything's cyclically in life, so things change anyway but they had some financial irregularities involving corruption and bravado match officials. And the Italian League now is still, you know, one of the top five leagues, but it's way behind the Premier League in terms of attendances and revenue and the players it attracts. So the Premier League I've probably made made this well, I know I've made this point on previous pods. They've got to be really careful about because nothing in life lasts forever. Nothing is, you know, is gonna. So their revenues have gone up and up and up over the last sort of 20 or 30 years and I think I wonder if there's an expectation that's just going to carry on. There's no guarantee it's going to carry on and one of the things that might mean it doesn't carry on is them completely messing up the situation around the profit and sustainability rules.
Speaker 1:Well, because you make the legal exciting right. That's the risk. You stop making the in theory and I understand rules well, because you make the league unexciting, right. That's the risk. Yes, you stop being making the in theory and I understand not that there should be rules right, there should be rules around spending like. I'm not against that in principle, but you, you want the, the, the outcome, to be dictated by what happens on the pitch and the moment you change that. I think that's the thing they've sleepwalked into, but with points deductions rather than financial penalties, because people talk about financial penalties aren't meaningful. I completely disagree. I completely disagree. If you clobber someone with a big financial penalty that they, that that goes against like, that, that goes against their like is effectively considered transfer spending right for the purposes of it, then actually that would be really tough. But by by making it points deductions, they've created this.
Speaker 3:They've they've, I think, walked without thinking into a situation where the, the drama, happens in a courtroom, in a closed courtroom yeah, yeah it's not a good sport, obviously no exactly and I think, um, I mean they're, they're in a bit of a pickle with Leicester as well. Who are, you know, in trouble because of their? I mean, obviously they've been imploded on the pitch. You know, andrew, you made the point before the podcast of them being a few weeks ago. They were a few months ago, rather, they were, you know, 15 points clear at the top of the championship and now they've dropped out of the top two. So things aren't going well for them on the pitch. But also they've got, obviously, their.
Speaker 3:They've been charged with breaking PSR as well, which is sort of inevitable given they. I think it was like in the last Premier League season that they were in. Last season they didn't spend a penny on transfers. I think a lot of theirs comes from their training ground. I think it was that they've built.
Speaker 3:But there's a question mark over Leicester whether they get the punishment now in the Championship or whether they get it in the Premier League, and there's arguments about who has the jurisdiction over that sort of punishment and and the sort of, and obviously then you've got all the ramifications of well, how will that impact?
Speaker 3:How that impact championship clubs when they spent that money in the prime when they were in the Premier League, and how Championship clubs may benefit or be punished as an indirect result of, or a direct result, rather, of the fact that they get they might get points deducted in the Championship when the Championship clubs had. You know, they weren't in the Championship at the time. So they've created this mess, complete mess, for themselves, where they've put these guidelines, they've had these PSR rules and gone. It's almost like they've gone. Like we've made this point before in the previous podcast. I don't think anyone can possibly lose 150 million each season over three seasons. I think it's impossible to do that. It's like they almost never thought this would ever actually come into place and now they've. Now they're panicking because they actually do have to provide some clarity and guidance and they're just showing that they're incapable of doing it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and lester statements around this issue as well have been really interesting in the sense of they've been really bullish. And I mean, as far as they're concerned, the gloves are off because Everton and Forrest statements around their respective charges have, you know, said the right words around, you know being disappointed and you know made their displeasure quite plain. But Leicester's statements have been on another level and they've been sort of actively questioning the jurisdiction of the Premier League and the PSR rules as to whether they can apply to a club in Leicester's circumstances. And again you've got to wonder bear in mind what a cack-handed job the Premier League have done with this entire process Is there a clause in the Premier League sorry, is there a clause in the PSR rules that enables them to to take action against a club in Leicester's situation? Now, you you assume that there is, but none of us would be surprised if it transpired that there wasn't. And Leicester absolutely right in questioning the validity of the process, which adds more grist to the mill, which is what austin said about it.
Speaker 1:You can't see anything other than a summer of of clubs taking action against various government bodies for various aspects of the process yeah, it's going to be, I think the, believe it or not, I really think the messiest part of this is still to come. Yeah, I think, after it all gets done. I mean because I mean absolutely. I mean the fact, and we'll move on from this, dear listener, very quickly, I promise you. But just the fact that, like, this whole process is run by absolute boneheads is demonstrated by the fact that the deadline for the appeals to be resolved is a week after the season ends.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Because it's timed around their annual shareholder meeting. Right, that's why that's when that is because they have a share. So it's like because they have to know who's. So they like oh, we need to know who's in the league or not ahead of the shareholder meeting. Right, that's like. No, it's like you need to go for the fans because you're an entertainment product. So they could have said I mean, they've made the. They're gonna say it has to be two weeks earlier than that and it's a week before the season ends. So, going into the last week, you know what the score is. They're just so.
Speaker 1:I mean, these people are dumb as a rock. I mean, there's absolutely. You know richard masters is a marketing guy who's in so far above his head and you know it's become widely known in football circles that he's not. You know that the clubs have lost faith in him and you, you can see. You can see why. Anyway, I promise we move on and we will. Let's talk about everton. So I'm going to read you guys, we have currently, as we sit recording this, now we have 25 points from 28 games, so we have a game in hand against most of the team around us. That game in hand is against Liverpool. So let's not, let's not get too overexcited about that.
Speaker 2:25 points, Forest 21.
Speaker 1:Lut 25 points, forrest 21. Luton 22. As discussed, forrest Could be on 21, could be on something else, we could be on 25, could be on something else. Anyway, that's where we are. I'm going to read you the fixtures we have coming up between now and the next four weeks, four weeks plus change. And then we're going to go through them and we ask you guys what you think we're gonna get from each one and we're gonna work out whether we're gonna get relegated on.
Speaker 1:And I say I, I believe, as you people have been listening to this pod long enough now I believe it's impossible that forever, since you get relegated, because we live in a simulation and the simulation has rules and one of the rules is evertonians will never receive the sweet release of death. But we actually got relegated. It would be fine like we'd be in the championship, we'd play football, we'd win games, everything would be fine. But we never get to experience that we have to be tortured. So, uh, tomorrow, uh, balmoth away. Tuesday, newcastle away. Next sat, burnley at home. So we've got three games in a week. Then we've got Chelsea away, forest at home, liverpool at home, brentford at home. So those seven games coming up, let's go through. I mean, we normally do this at the end, but as we're doing them in a group, we'll do it now. What do we think about the Bournemouth result? Let's do some quick fire. What do we think the results of these games are going to be?
Speaker 3:I think we I mean, I'm just going to go full Lawrenson on this until we win, and I think we're going to win because we have to win at some point and Bournemouth are a good team and I think they've done well with their sort of gamble, getting rid of Gary O'Neill at the start of the season and brought in a guy whose name I can never, ever, ever, ever remember.
Speaker 2:Andoni Iraiola.
Speaker 3:Thank you, andrew. Very good, he got his first name, Very impressive, and so they're a good team. But I just think that they will, that our luck's got to turn at some point and we will win 1-0.
Speaker 1:Okay, andy, what do you think about Bournemouth?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's going to be a more difficult game than the reverse fixture was at Goodison, because that was right at the start of the season and the Bournemouth players then were clearly struggling to adapt to Iriola's methods. But that has clicked now and they're a they're, they're, they're a decent outfit. So this is not going to be an easy game. Having said that, we've said many times on previous podcasts that everton's underlying performances generally are are are reasonably good. Um, all the, all the metrics are in the right direction. We just can't, we just can't score. Sooner or later, though, I, I I have faith that we will start scoring. So I'm going to say I'm going to let my my head over my no, my heart over on my head on this. I'm going to say we're going to win 2-1. Okay, all right.
Speaker 1:So you guys both think we're going to win 2-1. Okay, All right. So you guys both think we're going to win. What about Newcastle away?
Speaker 3:Adam, yeah, that'll be a trickier one. So I think, based on the fact that we will beat Bournemouth and get that monkey off our back, I think we'll then go and lose that, just to put the pressure right back on us. Andy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's obviously going to be a tougher game. I mean, newcastle aren't pulling up any trees though their season compared to last season they'll be disappointed with and they've got a whole host of players out injured. I mean they've had suffered injuries for a good chunk of the season In a world where we don't have a points deduction.
Speaker 1:we're only five points behind Newcastle. We're nine because we got four points back. Ignore me, Please carry on.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, it's, yeah. I, as much as I can't see us winning that game, we might get a draw, we might get a nil-nil up there. So I'll go for that nil-nil, which will do me nicely.
Speaker 1:All right. So then the next one's Burnley. At home, We've got to beat Burnley, right? The three of us would give that. Yes, agree, ad, okay, absolutely Right. So Chelsea away.
Speaker 3:We'll beat Chelsea because Chelsea are a.
Speaker 1:Adam's got us in the jam. He really has gone full. They won't get up.
Speaker 3:I'm hitting my Mark Lawrenson button again. Okay.
Speaker 2:I mean Chelsea are obviously the sort of team the epitome of you never know who's going to turn up. They can either be Brazil, 1970 or Bognor Regis from 1970. Did Bognor Regis have a club in 1970? I've no idea, but for the purpose of this conversation they did. Again, I have every confidence. Club in 1970? I've no idea, but for the purpose of this conversation they did. Yeah, again, I have every confidence that we'll go there and do what we do well, which is digging deep low block, defend quite well, and it's up to if Chelsea can break us down or not. Again, I'd be happy with it with a draw there.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right uh Forrest at home big game.
Speaker 2:I think that's another one we've got to look, got to look to win and Adam, what do you think?
Speaker 1:I think you're on mute Ad. It does limit the impact on the podcast.
Speaker 3:It does. Yeah, I mean I could sign. I mean I have two problems with that. We're on a podcast and I can only do the alphabet, thank you. So yeah, yeah, I think we'll beat Forest. I think home advantage big game. I think obviously ourselves and Forest will be still very much in the thick of it around that time and Goodison will be like a bear pit around then, presumably, liverpool are going to batter us, because that's what they do.
Speaker 1:Anyone disagree with that?
Speaker 3:No, we're going to get tanked. I've written it off because Clark and also the also the media will be going absolutely bananas for Klopp in his last derby away. So we've got to fight against that as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and obviously, unless they have a collapse between now and then, they're going to be in the shout for the league title. I mean, what I will say is that obviously I mean you know, eight o'clock kickoff on a Wednesday night I mean Goodison's going to be an absolute bear pit for that game.
Speaker 3:I'm trying to go for that.
Speaker 2:We're going to try Well obviously it's me or you plus dad. So yeah, if you to go, then go ahead.
Speaker 1:Yeah, people say I've always said I grew up, you know you'll remember this interview. Say a form goes out the window at Derby, does it shit?
Speaker 2:No, it really doesn't. It really doesn't.
Speaker 3:We haven't beaten them at Goodison since 2010.
Speaker 1:It's ludicrous. All right, so we're going to lose. Now Brentford, now I'm going to this game so I can tell you it's going to be a draw, because that's what happens when I, the last four times no, I, watched us beat West Ham away last season. Every other game I've seen in the last two years has been a draw, every single one, and I think I've seen six. So, uh, if you want to deviate, want to make an argument that I'll see everton win, I'm here to hear it I mean, I've the games I've seen this season.
Speaker 3:I've I've been to three and we've lost them all. Um, so you're doing better than me. I went to Fulham where we battered them and lost 1-0, and then lost to City at home fair dues. And then what was the last home game where we? It wasn't the last home game, it was the one before West Ham, whatever it was.
Speaker 2:Me and you went to Palace Palace. That was it.
Speaker 3:That was a draw. That was a one-all draw. It felt like a loss because of the fact that it did because it was terrible. And it was shit.
Speaker 1:Okay, do you think we're going to beat Brentford?
Speaker 3:Are we home or away? We're home Home, yes.
Speaker 1:All right, adam thinks we're going to beat Brentford. Andy, have you been?
Speaker 3:telling us our points.
Speaker 1:I am telling up yes, and there'll be a record, and this will be revisited at the end of the season or again it's it, I, I think I'm going to say I'm going to be all the hell with it.
Speaker 2:I'm going to say, yes, we're going to beat brentford. It's going to be two nil okay.
Speaker 1:So let me tell you I mean me, dear listeners, to do some quick mathematics Four, seven, eight, 11, 14. Okay, so you guys believe, adam, you believe we're going to get 15 points from these seven games. Yes, you believe we're going to get 14 points from these seven, which would be a dramatic improvement. I just want to point that out. But if we did, if we did, if, adam, you were right we would immediately be on 40 points, absolutely clear at the relegation zone, and you'd have us on 39, equally clear. So, job done, Easy peasy, to be fair.
Speaker 1:I mean like all right, that's like whatever just like just over two points a game for me, which is, you would win the league if you played like that the entire season. That's what you're talking about. You're talking about comfortable Champions League form that we're suddenly going to adopt.
Speaker 3:Hey, we adapted it. We won four games on the bounce back in December and we've been on the worst. I think it's like the joint worst run in our entire history at the minute. So I thought our looks got to change. I've caveated most of these things with the fact that I've gone Lawrenson on it.
Speaker 1:I appreciate the optimism.
Speaker 2:Go ahead, Andy. I mean obviously those seven games that we've just outlined. If we get 10 points from those, that will put us on 35. Yeah, With going into May and away game at Luton and a home game against Sheffield United. Still to come, game against Sheffield.
Speaker 1:United still to come. No, this is the key. The key thing I was going to sort of wrap this up is joking aside, we have got to play Burnley at home, forest at home, brentford at home, sheffield United at home.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:If we cannot muster 12 or 13 fucking points, we don't deserve to be in the league. You know, that is like points deductions aside. We should be able to. We should win all of those games.
Speaker 2:That should be our. That should be the standard we're setting, absolutely yeah. Yeah, I'd agree. Everything else that's gone on this season, you know, points deductions, potential second points deductions, our inability to hit a cow's ass with a banjo in terms of putting the ball in the net. There are enough points still to play for at the end of the season. It's still in our hands, regardless of any other extenuating circumstances, and if we can't get enough points from our remaining certainly home fixtures, then quite frankly, we we deserve to be relegated and then it sets up perfectly because we're playing arsenal away at the end of the season and we love nothing more than getting absolutely fucked by arsenal.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, it's like a tradition. I mean, remember that game at the year we actually we qualified for the fucking Champions League.
Speaker 2:Well, it's funny 7-0.
Speaker 1:It's funny.
Speaker 3:They were literally all still hung over. Oh, they were.
Speaker 2:I listened to an Everton FC podcast today about Everton's goalkeepers over the last sort of 50 or 60 years and that game was actually mentioned because we lost. I think it was 7-0. Yeah, it was 7-0. And one of the I think it was Dave Prentice, who was working for the Echo at the time said Everton's man of the match by a country mile was the goalkeeper, Richard Wright, Because it happened to be for him.
Speaker 3:It was Nigel Martin.
Speaker 2:Was it Nigel Martin, I think so.
Speaker 1:Richard Wright had left by then, I think he left.
Speaker 2:Well, they mentioned a lot of goalkeepers in the course of 45 minutes, but whoever it was was our man of the match, because it would have been, you know, easily double figures.
Speaker 1:So it's actually a perfect Everton season. I think we'll avoid relegation, either against Luton or Sheffield United. Third game to go, second game to go, and then Arsenal will set a record against us. If you're an Arsenal fan, you'll listen to this. Don't know where you would be if you are Unless. You're worried about going down to the wire or you think maybe goal difference might matter. Do not worry, we've got you are fine.
Speaker 1:That's right, because you are going to set a fucking record. Yeah, all right, so you guys think we're all going to be fine, great, um, okay, any of the everton stuff we want to talk about, because the and you want to talk about football league stuff a little bit, which I want to do, but any of the Everton stuff we want to talk about, because, andy, you want to talk about Football League stuff a little bit, which I want to do, but any of the Everton stuff we should talk about.
Speaker 2:The only thing who plays right back against. Well, bournemouth have the forthcoming fixtures Because I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong, but is Colwyn fit again, did he?
Speaker 1:play for Ireland the other day.
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 3:We've done so much, we're so professional. There's so much crap. Come and Google it yeah.
Speaker 1:People listen to us.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But the reason I ask is is Dyche clearly doesn't fancy Patterson at all, because he clearly would have played him in lots, of you know, previous fixtures?
Speaker 1:And apparently he bunched him in lots of you know, previous fixtures and apparently he punched him and apparently yeah, apparently.
Speaker 2:well, playful slap that ended up being a bit harder.
Speaker 1:I work in communications. A playful slap is a very yeah.
Speaker 2:But anyway, so clearly doesn't you know? Fancy him on the you know on the pitch. Fancy him on the pitch. Ben Godfrey's been right back, but he's not pulled up any trees in terms of his performances, so you can make a strong case that the best right back of the three players you could really see. Obviously you could play Ashley Young there as well, I suppose. But out of all the available options, 60 grand Seamus Coleman is Ashley Young there as well, I suppose. But out of all the available options, 60 grand Seamus Coleman is still the best one.
Speaker 1:Coleman is fit according to my hasty Right, so I would expect him to.
Speaker 1:But he's not going to play three games in seven days. So you know, and I think, just thinking about again you know which, we've spent a lot of time working at the fixtures I can see Dyche really prioritising tomorrow and then next Saturday over Newcastle away, you know, and I think that's probably right because you're going to. So you know, I think we will see Ashley Owen play a role at some point, but I don't know. That's something that's interesting because I think Dyche has shown with you know, with what's his name, god centre half just made the England squad that he will give.
Speaker 1:You know, he's not contrary to his reputation, a little bit he's not close to young players and Paterson, he is like giving game time to. He just seems reticent to start him, but maybe his hand, for the reason that you, you raise andy, his hand might be forced right because it's going to be. It's tough, I think, to play ashley young right back in a game you're trying to win. Yeah, because I just think he gives you so little going forward that I think that and he's dice has been burned a couple of times by that already Coleman, obviously, we know, can do that and is a, you know, is just the best at it. I think Patterson may get an opportunity at some point, just through necessity, yeah yeah, no, I agree.
Speaker 3:I think I think he's obviously had a lot of time out where he's not been starting. I think injuries will probably force his hand. I think he made a mistake against Scotland in their latest fixture against Northern Ireland, which has obviously probably not helped things, but I think he deserves another chance. I think he's a good player. I think he's just, I think tactically. I just don't think Dyche. I think Dyche has worries about him sticking to the system that he wants him to play and you can imagine, knowing where to be at any point in the game is the first and foremost consideration for for Daishin in selecting his, selecting his teams.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I, I think you know that I can. Yeah, yeah, he completed 90 minutes. I was just I was doing further research because I'm dedicated to accuracy on this podcast. He completed 90 minutes, or he was booked in the 85th minute, so we at least lasted that one because he was 90 minutes. Or he was booked in the 85th minute, so we at least molested that one. Um, because he was just knackered by that stage and was just yanking someone down. Um, all right, andy, you wanted to talk about football league results. There's been a whole lot of football going on.
Speaker 2:Well, even by everson have not been around, so tell us what's going on there yeah, we touched on um, on leicester, and their sort of mini collapse has been quite remarkable. 10 or 11 weeks ago they were 15 points clear at the top of the championship and odds on to win that league at a canter and get promoted back to the Premier League. At the first time of asking, however, dave had a bit of a well, not a mini. It started off as a mini slump and it's now become quite a large slump because, as I sit here now, they are currently third and in the top two. That will be a collapse of quite monumental proportions and again the financial impact that it may or may not have on them could be quite disastrous.
Speaker 2:But I also would like to mention two results from League One today that just demonstrates how utterly wonderfully mad this sport is that we uh, we love and adore so much. Peterborough, who are fourth, were at home to carlisle united, who are 24th and rock bottom of league one, and barnsley, who are fifth, were home to cambridge united, who were were home to Cambridge United, who were 19th, and those results finished Barnsley 0, cambridge 2, and Peterborough 1, carlisle 3. It's completely, absolutely bonkers. Now, surprise results happen all the time. We know that. Every football fan has seen them happen to their clubs. But I just love seeing you know scrolling through live school and seeing results like that. It just warms the cockles of my heart because it just shows that for all the preparation and all the that people like us talk about it and pundits and tv people, and all the preparation that managers and players and coaches do, when it's 11 against 11 on a pitch, with a goal at either end of the ball, you just never know what's going to happen.
Speaker 3:Yeah absolutely In the Latvia-Lichtenstein game the other day.
Speaker 2:Oh that goal, that was a thing of beauty.
Speaker 1:I haven't seen this. What was it?
Speaker 3:Sorry, andrew, go on. What was it? Sorry, andrew, go on, it was your thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was a friendly between Latvia and I think it was Liechtenstein.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was.
Speaker 2:Liechtenstein, yeah, and basically Latvia. I put the link in our WhatsApp group. I'd urge you to have a look at it. Basically, kick-off, basically kick off Latvia and not playing the ball around in their defensive area as you do, you know, and one of the defenders, under absolutely no pressure at all, just passes the ball straight into his own net.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, the goalkeeper is out of position, isn't he the goalkeeper? Yeah, the defender was clear.
Speaker 2:They expected the goalkeeper to be in one area and he wasn't, which was a problem. Yeah, the defender was clear and expected the goalkeeper to be in one area and he wasn't, which was a problem.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and then your game plan is out of the window within 14 seconds. So sort of testament to your point I want to mention. I mean, this is incredible, you know, like you know, chesterfield, chesterfield, who, for listeners, who know who we are, most of us grew up in Mansfield, for, in my case, nearly all of my life, for you guys, a lot of your lives and obviously that's the next town along, and they have just been promoted with two months to spare, being 21 points clear of the National League, and they have a. They have a Everton low-knee Harry Tyra in goal for them. So well done to him and well done to Chesterfield.
Speaker 1:Well, that's awesome. I just watched this lap vehicle. I had to connect. The reason why you said that is because I had to connect to a VPN. That's brilliant, because actually it's from such a tight angle. Oh yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I love the celebration because it's not even like an own goal where, like someone you know cause, there's this thing where if you you cross the ball in and a defender heads it in, like you take the celebration right, like that's the people know what to do. The, uh, the players here for whoever, uh, you know, score the goal. I think it's a lot for you like, um, don't know, there was. None of them were involved at all, so they have absolutely no idea they just sort of gather.
Speaker 1:They don't know who to congratulate that guy, because it's actually, really. It's actually. If you ask that guy to do like, stand where he's standing and put that ball in the net a hundred times, he'd do it 10, like it's like it's such a narrow angle. Oh, that's brilliant. It's um. I was reminded the other day of um.
Speaker 1:I'll dig it out and put it in the show notes the link to the youtube of the, the absolute best um own goal ever, which is a guy playing for wales in the 90s, I think, where you probably never described, but you know the one I mean, where he basically like the ball's sort of bobbling through and he's going to do it clear another line and he's got loads of time, so he controls it and tries to clear it but smashes it into the top corner of the net basically from about two yards. It's absolutely the best own goal ever. He controls it on it three yards out and belts it into the top corner.
Speaker 2:That's not a player called Wayne Hatswell.
Speaker 1:Wayne Hatswell, that's who it is.
Speaker 3:Isn't that the same, that that yeah.
Speaker 2:I know the goal. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:He actually controls the ball. That's what makes that one.
Speaker 1:Funny, he's under complete control. Yeah, there's nowhere near him. I mean, there's no one within 10 yards of him. He could do anything. Seen this, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna watch it now. There was an everton one um years ago. There's a guy called paul holmes who played right back for everton in like the early 90s, I think. Terrible player, sure, he's a lovely bloke. Terrible footballer, um, who during one game I was at, clearly after, immediate after half time, was defending on the edge of his own box, following a corner and controlled the ball and took a shot because he obviously had a brain fail, because there's only if you look at it. I don't know if this exists on YouTube, I can't remember who we were playing, but if you watch it, it absolutely there's. No, it is a shot. He is trying to curl the ball into the top corner of his own neck. But if you watch it like it absolutely there's. No, it is a shot. He is trying to curl the ball into the top corner of his own neck because he's forgotten. They've changed ends.
Speaker 2:Which, to be totally fair, you sort of wonder why that doesn't happen. Doesn't happen more, more often?
Speaker 3:Yeah, or when players, like you know, sign for another club and are playing their old club like really soon afterwards yeah I said to the wrong people or something oh yeah, like in fact I've played five a side where you've been asked to like switch to the other team and it genuinely takes a little bit of time to sort of adjust, like mentally, to that where you're just like right, I'm actually kicking the other way now and I'm not gonna pass. I'm going to pass to him. And why the fuck are you tackling me? Oh yeah, you're not on my team.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's you know. But yeah, look up yeah.
Speaker 3:I've just watched that. I have seen that Hatswell one before. It's brilliant yeah.
Speaker 1:All right, anything else we should talk about before we wrap up. I'm sure we'll be back, you know, back in in the mix of the next three games at some point. But anything else for today no, I'm good.
Speaker 2:No, that'll do for today, I think, for me all right, good to see you guys.
Speaker 1:You know, rest assured, people, we've solved the problem. We're going to be uh, we're going to be top off by the end of the month, according to these guys guys, so everything's under control. You can rest easy. Yeah, thanks for listening. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, spotify, wherever you get your podcasts. We are there, tell your friends who follow the Blues and, yeah, we'll see you in a few days. Stay well.