So, Everton have been taken over by 777. This pod was recorded before the news was official, but we still discussed what it likely means for the club. Listen on.
Welcome to episode 62 of the Boys Brothers Everton podcast. I very nearly made us do episode 61 again, but Ben saved us from that by looking on Spotify, presumably, to see what episode it was. Ben and Andy are here. Adam can't join us today. Congratulations to his daughter and our niece, karencer, on starting nursery this week, which is a big step for all of us. Ben's hoping to get there himself one day. Ben, how are you doing?
Speaker 2:That sounds like I want to go to nursery one day.
Speaker 3:I want to point that out.
Speaker 2:but yeah, I'd like to clarify I have a university and I've got education. Thank you very much, as much as it may not come across on this podcast. No, I'm good. I was going to say if we did episode 61 again, maybe we all wouldn't be so confident about our predictions, as we have been the last couple, because I think we've predicted us to beat both Villa and Fulham in the last couple of months.
Speaker 1:There's a thing on the Everton online community where they take the piss out of Alan Hansen for like basic. If you look at his BBC predictions, Liverpool will just never lose a game. We do the same thing. Everton would win everything if our predictions came to pass. Andy, how are you doing?
Speaker 3:Hi, I'm good.
Speaker 1:Thank you, how are you? Very good, I've got a bit of a cough, so I'm going to try and meet myself at the right moments. If I cough at any point, I apologize. Okay, so here's the agenda for today. We're going to talk about on the pitch stuff first, and then we're going to talk about the off the pitch stuff because we're recording this on Tuesday, september 12th, kind of evening time in the UK.
Speaker 1:So the news around the potential 777 group takeover kind of broke yesterday-ish. So that may have progressed a little bit by the time you listen to this, maybe not. We've all got some thoughts on it. So I want to say we are going to talk about that. We're going to talk about actual football first, because that seemed like the right thing to do. So we'll talk about the Sheffield United game 2-2, I think I'll save my kind of view on the performance too. You guys have had a go, ben. I'll start with you. What was your takeaway from that game? I guess a little bit in the context of what we'd seen previously in the kind of performances that we had in the previously games and then, of course, the game we did finally win in the League Cup a few days before we played United, yeah so I think it was disappointing not to come away with three points.
Speaker 2:We said that a couple of times this season.
Speaker 2:But what I was reassured by is, first of all, we actually scored a goal and then indeed doubled down by scoring a second one, which was not necessarily something that I thought was going to be possible. And I was pleased with the second goal, especially because it was a good goal Like. The first one is like a corner into the box and there's a bit of a scramble and a bit of a poke in. Yeah, that's sort of a quite a shawndised goal. But the second one was actually like good hold-up play by Beto who we'll come onto in a second Lady, after passing, great crossing, and then Dan Duma arrives at the back stick and puts it in. It was actually the sort of goal that you just don't you see with the team scoring, but we never seemed to be able to put together like an actual good footballing move that ends in a goal. We were unlucky. I think you know that Pickford won like it's him on the back of the head and goes in the goal right and then he saves us at the end with the fantastic double save which you know. I think I feel like we say this every week with Pickford, but sort of feels like it will be up there with save the season at the end of the year. So I think the direction of travels good. It was an interesting chart that I saw earlier. I can't remember which sort of outlet put it out, but enlisted the top 10 teams for non-penalty XG of the season so far, and we were seven, I think. So we are creating chances and now we've got Beto, who looks like a real player, I feel more confident that we'll take them. I worry about how weak we are at the back because their first goal, especially second goal, you go hey look, it's just unlucky. The year the person hits Pickford in the back of the head and goes in right, you know how many times does that shot? Either hit the post and go out, or hit the post and not hit Pickford, or hit the post and drop perfectly to Pickford when he turns around. Whatever. The first one was really soft. Like no one gets close to McBurney he's able to lay off to Cameron Archer who stood by himself on the edge of the box, like none of the midfielders have had the common sense to drop in and cover him. So I worry quite a lot about our defensive solidity and our ability to stop conceding goals. I think we'll.
Speaker 2:If you were to ask me the question will we score enough goals to stay up? My answer is categorically yes, I believe we would score enough goals to stay up. I'm not convinced we will keep enough clean sheets to stay up is my worry. I feel like there'll be lots of games that are 2-2, where we should have won, or we lose 2-1 when it should have been a 1-1 draw because we can't keep clean sheets. So, overall positive. You'd want more than one point from the early games that we've had, but I think the direction of travel is good. We've got players coming back from injury, so I feel okay, not sort of overwhelmingly positive.
Speaker 2:But the other thing I would say is that Sheffield United didn't look very good at all. Luton looked like they are on a fast lane to a record, but low points total and Burnley just are. And I think, dad, to be fair to mention this in the pre-season pod we did, burnley just don't look like that style that they used to dominate the championship works at all in the Premier League when they don't have, you know, 70% possession because they've been torn to ribbons three times now. So I think, looking further ahead, I think probably be fine, because there are three worse teams than us. Whether it's Burnley or Wolves or whoever, I think there are three worse teams than us.
Speaker 2:But yeah, overall. Just quick word on Beto. I think we've got a real player there. I think he looks like a proper hard-working, strong, good in the air, you know, good finisher, really really, really real powerful player and gives us you feel like as a genuine either alternative partner rotation with DCL. You don't feel like we need to have DCL in the team now to score goals, which is a great relief after quite literally two years of feeling that.
Speaker 1:Before I come to you. I was interested in hearing your sort of view on that, ben, because I'd say you, it feels to me and I want you to tell me whether this is fair enough, because I'm interested in why that your kind of view of that performance has changed somewhat since your initial reaction to it where, like you sounded like on the day you were, it felt to me like pretty stressed about, more or less well, a lot of that performance. Is that fair or am I just uh?
Speaker 2:no, no, I think that's that. I think I think, uh, as with many people, the stress of watching Everton often clouds your ability to analyze it rationally. So I think distance is is helpful in that. I mean at the time, like they were two rubbish goals to get away Like.
Speaker 2:The first one is terrible for all the reasons I've set out, the second one is unlucky, but you couldn't analyze it and go, well, look, why is Cameron actually got that much space to run into and take that shot in the first place, right? So it was a really frustrating thing to watch because we were in control of that game and we hadn't given them anything, and then we gifted them two opportunities and they scored two goals, which is especially frustrating because that never happens to us. We are never the team it feels like ever that gets back to the game and then wins it on a flukey one-nil or scores our only shot on goal, whereas it feels like it always happens to us, like it happens against Fulham and it happened against Wolves and it nearly happened. In the end it would have happened where it not for Pickford to say, but yeah, it just sort of feels like there's a fragility there that we don't benefit from on the other side. So, yeah, I think I'm more sanguine about it with distance.
Speaker 2:At the time I was really, really annoyed at it, especially the first goal, because it's such a soft goal for a professional football team to give away and I think Dijs would have been tearing. If he indeed had hair, he would have torn it out. Maybe that's why he doesn't have hair, because he tears it out on a regular basis, watching us try and defend.
Speaker 1:Well, I think he tore it out when he was playing for Chesterfield, I think. But like the sentiment's the same, yeah, I agree, Andy. What was your thoughts on the Sheffield United game?
Speaker 3:I saw the match of the day, highlight of this game and from looking at those I'm slightly more confident than Ben in our ability to keep enough clean sheets, because I thought Jared Branthwaite had a good game. Again highlights. You can't always tell the whole story, but he looked like he had a good game, so that's a positive option. At centre half, an upfront betto does look a real player. The Talksport commentary team that I was listening to were waxing lyrical about him for a good portion of the game and from the bits I've seen, he looked strong, he looked quick. He's obviously got the ability to hold the ball up and that's an aspect of the game that we've been solely lacking for possibly the last couple of seasons. And that ability is so important, not just because it obviously gives you the chance to get up the pitch and score a goal, but if we are going to be under the cost a little bit at times, having somebody up the top end of the pitch to hold the ball upon, just relieving some defensive pressure, is important as well, and having that sort of player like Beto, it fits we've discussed this on the pod already this season. It fits how Dice wants to play the game, not necessarily just hooping long balls, but long passes with an aim of where they're going and there is a difference and also get balls down the wing, get crosses in and have somebody there to get on the end of them. And goodness knows. We've spoken enough already this season about how much we've been creating chances and RxG with the exception of the Villa game, rxg has been very good. I think it's been above two in all the other games with the exception of Villa. So, as we've already alluded to the chances of being created, we just need somebody to get on the end of them.
Speaker 3:And I agree with Ben about the second goal. I thought the second goal was really good play and again, it's great to have a play like Dan Juma on the end of a cross like that. And just one further point about the. Yeah, one further point about the second goal. Goodness knows, it's very easy to criticise referees at the moment because they have not had a good start of a season and I enjoyed immensely your long discussion about that in the last pub. But Andy Maddley did play advantage three times in the build up to that second goal. It's just worth pointing that out because that often is an aspect of the game that doesn't get enough credit. Having said that, he should have given us a penalty, because a foul that starts outside the box and continues inside the box is literally written in the laws of the game that a penalty kick should be awarded. So why on earth went to that with a free kick? I have absolutely no idea.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well done on the advantage. Andy, can we talk about the penalty you didn't give us the other penalty, you didn't give us for the handball before the corner when Decore actually scored, when he's got his arm up? Well, you can't see me, but he's got his arm very clearly outside of everybody. And can we also talk about what the fuck you were doing with the spray and the wall when you left?
Speaker 3:Oh yes, well, that was nonsensical.
Speaker 2:Like it was just. I've seen some fucking bizarre things that'll happen on football pitches with referees. I've been involved in a few of them myself.
Speaker 2:That was, without doubt, the bizarre thing that I'd ever seen, because he seemed to gesture that the second line was for where Everton players could stand, because obviously under the laws they changed the laws a couple of years ago that if you have more than two players of the free-kick-taking team forming their own wall, they have to be a yard away from the defensive wall.
Speaker 2:It's to stop the sort of jostling that you used to get, where you'd stick three players on the end of the defensive wall and they'd all collapse into the wall to get it out of the way to the team for a game. So if you have basically two players or more, they have to be a yard away. So it seems like he was spraying a line telling Ashley Young and whoever it was where James Garner, I think where they could stand. The problem was he then let Sheffield United step forward and stand on that line, so like if you're gonna do that, you have to move them back. It was the most bizarre thing I've ever seen a referee do and I just so yeah, well done on the advantage, but you were fucking useless the rest of the day, so you don't get very much credit for it.
Speaker 1:I could record me saying English Premier League referees are just not very good and insert it. It would be evergreen content for this podcast because we've said it so many and we see and it's interesting. I like the. I've sort of watched the officials miked up thing with Howard Webb, which is good and credit to him for doing that. I think it's better that they are explaining some of this stuff and I wonder if it will help the pressure for you're Howard Webb and you're thinking you're watching this shit. You're like fuck, I'm gonna have to go on Sky fucking Sports and explain my outline back.
Speaker 3:I apologize again.
Speaker 1:It is. It's why scrutiny works, because in a world where there is some, it has to be some explanation and he has people after there's a culture where there's more of a. It's more often the case that Howard Webb or whoever is saying, yeah, that we screwed that up. You're gonna get high quality decisions over time. You just are. The thing that is interesting is they're looking exclusively at Va decision.
Speaker 1:There were some of this stuff that's just not going anywhere near that. I mean like there was one. Additionally, you make the points about the sort of that. The line is like ludicrous drawing different. I mean, what's the Va meant to do? Saying make count to 10, not nine? You know, it's like it's absurd.
Speaker 1:There's another one as well with Jared Branthor has his shirt removed at a corner. I mean literally shirt torn. So I think it's one thing for PGMOL and how Webb's it'll go. Okay, we're gonna where we made Va decisions but where things aren't even being looked at but are clearly should be. That's still not happening and the idea that you can just grab an attack of shirt defending corner now and just hold them down with it just should never happen. It should just be a penalty every single time until it stops.
Speaker 1:But you know, chevrolet United were able to just remove Jared Branthor's shirt and not a peep. So I think that the Premier League has conned itself over a decade into believing it's the best league in the world, which, playing wise maybe it's there thereabouts, officials, wise it's. You know, I watch a lot of football around the world. No, andy, you do too Like it's nowhere near it, like, oh, and you see this in the World Cup. You know, we get at best we get one set of officials, you know, into any kind of business end of the World Cup. That tells you everything you need to know about the quality of English refereeing.
Speaker 3:To be fair, most clubs only get one set of officials at the World Cup. Occasionally there are two, obviously, anthony Taylor and Michael Oliver both ended up at the World Cup in Qatar. A better metric is the Champions League. Italy, spain, germany regularly have three and four different sets of match officials refereeing in the Champions League. England have only had Michael Oliver and Anthony Taylor for a good few years now. You've got to go back to the days like Mark Clattenberg and Howard Webb himself to find other English referees at the top of that particular competition. So that the fact that we've only got those two sets of officials in the Champions League is, for me, demonstrates demonstrative of the chasm that exists between those two, because, whatever you think of them, they're our best too. But then there's a yawning gulf between those two and the rest of them. You could drive a bus through it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, if you did drive a bus through it, they wouldn't even book the guy.
Speaker 3:No. So I mean it would be our even spotted, who knows.
Speaker 1:Because it's every week there's some mistake that is so egregious you go. Well, I mean literally whoever was in the VAR box must have been texting, because Well, have you listened to the VAR?
Speaker 2:Because, as you said, howard Webb is doing these, which is a credit to him, to you know, front up on this stuff and go on Sky Sports and talk about the decisions. But have you listened to the audio for the Wolves man United one with an honor? Yeah, it's just nonsensical. It's literally.
Speaker 2:I hate bashing referees. I genuinely, really do, because it's a really tough job. I've done it for a long time. Like I have every sympathy, but I don't know how a group of professional referees could have that conversation and conclude that they are applying the laws of the game correctly, because, for anyone who's listening hasn't heard it the reason they give and you can go and listen to this, it's available online. Go and watch it the reason they give for not giving a penalty to Wolves when Anana smashes into the Wolves striker is that Michael Dawson, a Wolves defender, who was just behind him, wouldn't have had her. The logic of that is that if I win a header, if I and Everton player win a header, and then Austin and Everton player gets assaulted off the ball by Andrew and a Liverpool player, it's not a foul because I and Everton player won the ball.
Speaker 2:It was I just. And you're listening to them and you're like someone's gonna say that's not how the laws work, right? Someone's gonna point that out. Like you don't have to be in possession of the ball to be fouled. Winning the ball has no bearing on whether some things are foul or not. It's one of the most frustrating things for players when they go but refer won the ball and you have to go. Yeah, it doesn't actually matter. Like that's not the thing that's explained in the rules.
Speaker 2:The mention of winning the ball literally doesn't appear in the laws of the game. So why you can end up with fouls and yellow cards for tackles where you quote unquote won the ball because it's a foul, is conducted in a reckless manner or a manner that is indeed during the safety of an opponent or conducted with excessive force, right? So the idea that they go oh well, dawson won the header, so it can't possibly a foul They've just made that up. They literally the group of professional referees whose job it is to do this have just made that up for some reason, and it's utterly embarrassing that they then have now have to live with that being caught on tape forever, like, forever. It is like it is an embarrassing. They should like I'm sorry, I don't know Michael Salbury he shouldn't be like a near a VAR booth for the rest of his career, like it was just awful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's really. Web's explanation of that was like oh, he's overthought it. It's like no, how, he's a fucking idiot. I mean it's like I can understand of being diplomatic. Oh, he's kind of. He said he's overthought it a bit, he's talked himself into it. It's like no, he's just talking bollocks and like just made it up.
Speaker 3:Just made it up, just to bring it back around to Everton. The referee in that man United Wolves game was Salman Hooper, and he is in charge at Goodison Park on Sunday for the game against Arsenal. So let's see how that goes.
Speaker 1:So done referees. Done Sheffields United. Do you want to, ben? You mentioned you want to talk about a Beto or Beto. I don't know Cause it's like. Is it a Beto test or a Beto test? I'm 41 years old. No one's ever been able to tell me. But that guy we signed from Udenesio is quite good. Talk to me about him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's looked really good and I mean first of all we should. We are harsh enough on the Everton board and leadership and management at the best of times, but there was a great athletic article by Pally Boylund who is like as far as I'm aware, the most plugged into sort of the goings on at the club and the details, especially on the financial side, and it revealed that the only money we handed over in the summer transfer window was three million.
Speaker 2:I don't know if it was three million pounds or three million euros. It was three million for Dan Jumas loan fee. Every other deal we did involved no fee being handed over and we bought Beto for 25 million pounds. 28 million pounds which sort of figure you read. So hats off to Kevin Felwell, because I mean, I made this joke on the WhatsApp group but like book the Clarnet offies, because we appear to have bought every, every player on like a buy now, pay later business model, including Beto, and to get a striker who looks as good as he does. I just think he like.
Speaker 2:It sounds a dumb thing to say, because what does an Everton striker look like? But he feels like an Everton striker. He feels like someone who has the right work ethic will put a shift in his physical. He's big. The thing that I was astonished by and I wanna be clear, I'm not making this comparison, I'm not saying he's this player the thing I was astonished by was how quick he is, to how big he is and the only other player where I've been out astonished that he's as quick because he's so big as Erling Harland. Again, super clear.
Speaker 2:Not saying Beto is Erling Harland, but he moves so much faster than a man who is six foot four should move like so much faster. I'm six foot two. It takes a lot of energy to get this amount of limb going right and he is rapid. So to have someone who's that physically imposing, who works hard, he looks like he has the right work ethic and also, if you watch, there was a great interview after we signed it. If you watch the sort of reveal video that Everton did when we unveiled him, there's a weird clip in the middle of it where he's like exercising on a five a side pitch in like Everton shirt, circa 2009 or something.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was on the Chang'An. Yeah, it was on the.
Speaker 2:Chang'An and there was an interview about it, and they show him the clip and say God, can you tell us about this? It turns out that his high school friends bought in that shirt because he was a massive Everton fan, because he loved the Lukaku. And then in the interview he goes oh yeah, I love that team. You know, lukaku, barclay Banes, coleman, muradass, like, so he was like, he's also an Everton fan. So we found a striker who wants to join us, looks pretty good, and we haven't had to pay any money up front for, like. It seems like a pretty amazing achievement, if you ask me, and so I feel much more confident having him and having Danjouma as a same, I don't think we'll struggle to score goals. My worry is can we stop conceding them? But I agree, jared Branthway, to Andrew's point did have a really good game against Sheffield United. I think that has to be the partnership going forward. It has to be Tarkovsky and Branthway.
Speaker 1:And any thoughts on like Beto or the other new players. We've seen a little bit more now.
Speaker 3:Not really. As I said, I've not seen a huge amount of the Sheffield United game. Yeah, I mean, I also as well, but bearing in mind sort of Beto's aerial strength and the way he's going to hold the ball up, I mean if he can. But another player that I'd had in the back of my mind is Duncan Ferguson. Again, he's a proper Everton legend and I'm not comparing him to Ferguson at the moment directly, but there's already you can see elements in Beto's game where, if we can get the ball to him in the right manner, he can be of service to us along similar lines as what Ferguson probably did as well. So I'm really. First game I'm going to at Goodison is Luton in a couple of weeks. So I'm really looking forward to that and looking forward to seeing how Beto plays in that. See him in the flesh.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's looked really good and I think, Ben, you make a really good point that the work that Falwell's done and the board have done and whoever has been involved in these negotiations is really exceptional.
Speaker 1:Because if you put any of us in that job and said you've got to fill these gaps in a squad, the money you get might come to you might not, but effectively assume you've got effectively zero budget for transfer fees, because wages obviously in this as well, you would go. I wouldn't even know where to start now. Obviously I haven't spent my career in the football business, but he's done very, very well. I must have taken a huge amount of persistence to do and overall I think you look back and I feel like the transfer business club did was good under incredibly difficult circumstances. So, yeah, no, it was good and it was interesting I thought. The other thing I'd say before we move on from Sheffield United is that second goal, which I agree was a very good goal. It was just so nice that Dan Juma was in the right place, because we've signed something over the years.
Speaker 1:It would just not that cross goes in and there's no one there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah yeah, neil Morpay is golfing at that cross from the penalty spot.
Speaker 1:How did he do that? And it's like it's the thing that Ansholotty did with Calvert Lewin, just being roughly in the right place, cause most goals are scored from within the effective, within the lines of the C-Shelf box. This is Sean Dysh's whole thing, which is why I'm sure, ben, you're right, you would have ripped the midfield. Actually, a new one about that first goal. We concede it because that's the zone where he's like. If you watch the 4-4-2 YouTube video where Dysh explains this kind of philosophy, you know. Basically he's like I don't give a shit what you do down the flank, cause you can't score from there. I'll let you play out there all you want within reason. I'm going to make sure, once the ball gets within the danger zone, as he calls it, we're not going to give you a sniff, and we gave them massive, great big sniff, an open invitation, so, which is why they scored. So I think that you know just having attackers, that we're just going to be in that spot is going to be really important. All right, that's with the football chat. So if you don't want to talk about any business stuff, but you feel free to tune out now, but we hope you'll hang around and cause we're going to talk about takeover stuff. So here's the situation, just to give a bit of context to where we're at.
Speaker 1:The MSP deal was talked about over, you know, for a long time over the summer. That didn't proceed. It's wrong to say it fell apart. This was sort of not totally accurately reported in my view. The equity part, the part where they were going to buy 25% of the club, didn't proceed. It didn't proceed because of an objection of sports and media rights limited, who are a lender to Everton, which is not. There was some nonsense. I saw online about that as well. Most clubs borrow. You know this is a specialist firm that lends to. You know I assume they do other sports, but in the context of the Premier League lends to Premier League clubs but effectively giving an advance on broadcast, on guaranteed broadcast money, and it's a very common thing and Everton have a facility with them, which is a normal business thing. So the sorts of you know people panicking about us being in debt was sort of silly because every business carries debt. But they had, for reasons that I don't think any of us know the detail of, they had the right to veto a buyer coming into the club as part of the terms of that debt which they did. Now MSP have still lent Everton 100 million pounds, which I think was confirmed today, has actually arrived or yesterday has actually arrived which is specifically to fund the stadium, which I think gets us. You know, the machinery said a few months ago the stadium was funded until the end of this year. We don't know how far 100 million gets you, but quite a long way. So that's the situation.
Speaker 1:The 777 group have kind of re-emerged following that in the last couple of days Story, initially from Bloomberg, which I think was you know, I would say I live in the world of financial media Bloomberg are on the less reliable end, I would say. Now they're not like they're not the New York Post or the Sun, but when people hear Bloomberg they probably feel that that's very authoritative. And they're not authoritative. It's just that they are known for being a little bit more trigger-happy in their sourcing than other financial media. And then, you know, guardian, telegraph, sky have picked up effectively just re-reporting that like a deal is closed. Who the fuck knows what that means. Ben, I'll start with you, because now you had some thoughts on this little collection of individuals who make up 777. So take it away.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I should be clear my level of knowledge and this is the research I've done over the last couple of days, or the last couple of months, I should say when, like in relation to them as people when they first sort of came on, I cannot emphasise enough how much I am fucking terrified that they might be on your own, because if you look at their leadership, if you look at their current portfolio, they own several of the football clubs you know they're standard of the age. They own Red Star FC, who are a team in the French third division. They own another club as well, vasco de Gamma in Brazil.
Speaker 3:That's a Berlin as well. I believe that's a.
Speaker 2:Berlin, thank you. And if you look at the view of them from the fan bases of those clubs, I don't think there is a single one that isn't currently protesting their the ownership they are. As far as I can tell, they are asset strippers. They are not interested in the investment side of football. We're not being bought by people who are here to you know, maximise the joy of the fan base and doing it for the love of the club or doing it because, whatever you think about machinery and Lord know he has his faults. I've never had any doubt that his heart has been in the right place, even if he's well of operating off the got in the way of that. I don't have any faith that these people have the best interests of Everton Football Club at heart. I think they are in it because they see a distressed asset which is their speciality. I think they are in a position where they are thinking they can flip us essentially by distressed asset strip us down, sell us on when we're in the new stadium and we're potentially a bit more of a tractor of a buyer.
Speaker 2:You don't want to dive too much into what people have done in their personal lives in the past, but the lead guy was nearly imprisoned on cocaine charges until he pled no contest and got 15 years of probation.
Speaker 2:It is not a collection of people that I would put in charge of anything I cared about and I care a lot about the future of Everton Football Club. I'd love to be proved wrong, but the best indicator of future performance is past behaviour, and their past behaviour very strongly demonstrate they are not good people, to the extent that there was a BBC article today speculating that they might not even pass the fit and proper by the owners and directors test. And what level do you have to be to not pass the owners and directors test? How dodgy do you have to be where you might not pass the Premier League's owners and directors tests? We might be the first club ever who tries to be taken over by someone who the Premier League go. Actually, we're OK with journalists murdering Saudis, but we're drawing the line at you. That would be quite a spectacular thing to happen, but it was voted that they might not actually pass the owners and directors test because of previous financial irregularities with the businesses that they've been involved in.
Speaker 1:So Ben's all in favour. Andy, tell us what you think.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I broadly Ben's more knowledgeable about triple seven than I am, but I broadly share a lot of his concerns and he said two things I completely agree with. One is the best indicator of what's going to happen in the future is look what's happened in the past and the fact that half of those other clubs that this organisation own, none of the fans are happy. I mean Standardly. Age is another one as well. The fans there are protest at the moment against being owned by the triple seven group. So, yeah, that doesn't all go well. You know why would, if they did, say, go Rev it and why would their approach to or sp Any difference to the approach that they've undertaken at their other clubs? And also as well, us investors in general don't buy club.
Speaker 3:You know football clubs in other countries because they're real cuddly and they like soccer. They look at it because it's it's it's an opportunity to basically, whether one way or another, just increase revenue and take money out of the club. I mean, obviously, with the glazes at man United are a good example of that. But even you look at Todd Bowley and Chelsea they've spent a billion pounds on transfers in the last two transfer windows, a billion pounds on new players. Yet they recently caught a scheme to offer subsidised coach travel for away fans. That was cost in the club about 250,000 pounds a year. Now the supporters are trying to get the club to reverse that decision. But in what world is spending a billion pounds on transfers? Yeah, they're cutting corners on looking after their away fans. These are fans who go to the game week in, week out, and it was a scheme where I think they got 20 pound off a ticket for the on the on the buses to away games. So that's the sorts of people you're dealing with. They don't care about the fans, they don't care about the history of the club, they don't care about all the things we care about.
Speaker 3:A lot of these people just look at the bottom line and and Ben's absolutely right, I've said the same thing before Mishiri, for all his, all his faults, his heart was in the right place, even if his wallet and his money and his credit card, his bank account, frequently were in the wrong place and spending money in the wrong in the wrong places. So, yeah, I mean, there's a small part of me that says you should always give people a chance. I like to see the good in people you know and the good in companies, and if they do own the club you know they should be given an opportunity to. We should give them a chance to see what would happen. But on the other hand, I do share a lot of the concerns that Ben's outlined as to what their their approach to running Everton might be, if indeed they end up running Everton.
Speaker 3:Because I read another article it wasn't on the DVC, but it said the same thing about this this, whatever. I don't know the exact details, so I do don't want drugs conviction. Whatever this guy has been involved with. I mean, he pled no contest and got his probation sentence, but that might. The article I read in the Times said that that could very well be deemed not spent by the football authorities in England and that would mean that he would fail the owners and directors test and in that case they don't own Everton and that's that.
Speaker 2:So the the thing that I think the final thing I would share is one of the football clubs they own is Sevilla, who are big European, you know, got to European finals, you know the World Cup and they won trophies in the very recent history. This summer, sevilla had to transfer listed their entire squad because they had to ammede. They had short term debts of about 75 million pounds that they had to find a soul for. These people are dodgier's fuck at best Financial. You know financial leeches, yes, at worst, like they would. Anybody Everton fan listening to this, I would urge you go and read about these people before you start dancing in the street that this is who, far had machinery might sell us to.
Speaker 1:So let me play devil's advocate, which may be a phrase that is closer to the truth in this context, but I know I know nothing about any of these people at all. I would just make a couple of observations and maybe challenge a couple of things that have been said, and I don't say this because I have any sort of belief that you guys are wrong. I just I think it's important to sort of have the counterpoint. Firstly, on the drugs thing I mean, I'm not an expert on what makes you a fit and proper person the idea that the Saudi government can pass it and a guy who was arrested for possessing 33 grams of cocaine doesn't as fucking would be fucking ludicrous. Which is what he had? He had 33 grams of cocaine, which is you know.
Speaker 2:I don't actually think I don't. I'm not going to be in front of me, but just to be clear, I don't think it's the drug charge that would be the problem. I think it's the financial irregularities being sued.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're being sued by a former employee. Yeah, and look, the Guardian had the best story on this, and by best I mean best in the Guardian sense, which was it was overblown nonsense which managed to take the fact that they were being accused. They've been accused of fraud and breach of contract by a former employee. Now, I have no idea whether that guy who's suing them is completely right or has made it all up. I have literally no idea. What I would tell you is any company involved in any kind of any kind of large business gets sued all the time by people. So the idea and this is a very Guardian BBC thing to do that there's a lawsuit that says these people are fraudsters Is any evidence they're fraudsters. It's just not the case at all. You know, maybe they are, but the the sort of while they're being sued, therefore, they may not pass that. So I think that I suspect, my suspicion is that the sort of idea that they don't pass the fit and proper persons test is Is a bit of a red herring, because I mean, I can't imagine how many dozens of people have passed that test who have been sued by people ever. I mean everyone who's a director of any Premier League football club has been sued by somebody at some point, I would guarantee it, and I imagine half of them have probably been arrested for possessing cocaine or at least haven't yet been caught. So like I don't sort of care about that, that stuff.
Speaker 1:I think it's probably an answer now, but I want to dig into something you said, ben, about asset stripping. Like we know how this, this works. Yes, you can do that private equity by businesses, strip it down, sell off. I don't see how you can do that to a football club because you can't take it to pieces. I mean, you, literally you just you can't do it. Now. If we owned, how could you do that? Well, in a different world, where you had very valuable players, you could take a team. For example, if I was a private equity bastard and I wanted to do that, I would buy a team that was in the top six, let's say, and I would take them from six to sixteenth Right, and I would do so by selling off a lot of valuable assets. Everson don't have any valuable assets, right? So now we're going to have a nice new stadium, probably, um, but you know you can't. If you invest in, you can't destroy the value of the asset you buy. It's, it's irrational. Even if these people are capitalist Vultures and I'll go so far as to say yes, they are probably only interested in Everson to the extent they can make money I can't think about how making us worse than we are now achieves that, because If you, if you, weren't in the Premier League, you would dramatically reduce the value of the asset I mean hugely. It would be Just destructive. So there's no way they would want that to happen.
Speaker 1:Um, and I don't know who in the squad is is the sort of crown jewel that you would see to see to sell, to make your quick buck and run away. So that is not to say that you know these people are saviours. I think all the people who are giving machinery shit it needs to check themselves because, as you guys have said, he's effectively given us about 400 million. I mean, the guy, the guy had a net worth of 1.2 billion when he took over at and and he's he's spaffed 400 million at least on it. So imagine how we imagine how we're annoyed like, imagine how annoyed he is. So I get like you know and yes, it's been, you know, it's been a very frustrating period to be an avatronian and I don't like the idea these guys taking over, because I do put a lot of credence in the fact that they pissed off every fang group, every club they own. I think that really is a data point that pays attention.
Speaker 1:I don't know financially, though. If you were a asset stripping vulture, you would look at Everton. I really don't. I just don't see what's there. I think what they see and is interesting just to loop back, the reason sports media rights blocked as we understand them and none of us are in these rooms Blocked the MSP deal is they felt that the equity valuation of the club at that point was 600 for that deal was 600 million pounds. That's what they were buying 25 percent for 150 million. Sports media rights felt that wouldn't devalue the club. That's why they blocked it.
Speaker 1:So I think If 777 have any agenda, it's that machinery doesn't have the funds to run this thing much longer. He's getting squeezed. They can buy it for White a lot less than it's worth with Premier League fan base to some degree global new stadium. So yeah, I think they can flip it. They probably do think they can flip it in two or three years and double their money. But I don't think they do that by taking our Amazing world leading squad and dissembling it. I think they just hold on to it for a few years because they've got the cash to do so.
Speaker 1:Anyway, the other point I'll make, the other thing that is knocking around is some analysis indicates that they may not have the money to do it, and the thing that would be worrying is if they do it via a leveraged buyout, which is the the man United model, which has been done a bunch of times, where you know you don't spend any of your own money. What you do is you you get a Bridging loan from a bank where you say I'm going to borrow this money from you for 48 hours At an astonishingly high rate of interest, because when I buy this asset I can take out a mortgage on the asset and pay you back, which is what the glazes to my nice. That's bad for any business, that's a terrible thing and it should be banned. We don't know yet what they're thinking about doing. Anyway, there you go.
Speaker 1:That is the, that is the case for the I wouldn't say defense, but at least the. It's maybe not as clear as it appears Point of view, and I will stop, except I'm the host, so I can't totally stop anything else about the basis of that that you guys Want to add. Andy, you want to say something?
Speaker 3:No, that's very fair, and it's obviously important that we do offer all different sides of of Of the arguments regarding this, this issue, because it's obviously very important. Well, we'll obviously just have to sit back and wait and see what happens. Any or all the scenarios that we've outlined could happen. Some combination of them might well happen. We don't know, so we'll just have to wait and see.
Speaker 1:And it could. We could be waiting for a while, because I'm stealing this a little bit from a watch to toffee tv show yesterday. So credit to them because it was a point that was made by a guest on there. John Blaine is good on this stuff and he made the point that if you let's take the things we know, we know that masheery said earlier in the year the stadium was funded to the end of the year, let's assume he was telling the truth. That means that up until 48 hours ago, when they got this hundred million, that was a pretty ticking time clock, because Imagine if lango roar could down tools on the first of january and said right, we're not putting any more bricks in the ground Until you pay us. You know that's a real problem. That money buys in that timeline and and and we don't know is that six months? Is it nine months? We don't know. But it's a decent period of time In terms of, you know, being able to continue that project. And I don't believe, given our transfer activity and or I'll be very, very surprised. We've generated in the last 12 months over 200 million pounds of incoming Transfer fees and probably reduced our wage bill.
Speaker 1:I would be surprised if the operating business itself, everton football club limited, had a cash flow problem right now. It may be a loss making business, but I'd be surprised if I had a cash flow problem right now. For reasons that you know has been outlined. We we haven't really had much outgoing. We've had money in because things like the, a woby sale, for example, like all of that was, you know it was all up from.
Speaker 1:So I think actually masheery is probably in a better negotiating position now than he was seven days ago and therefore probably will want to not do a deal. He's not going to be forced to do a deal in the next month. So Whether this happens or not, I have no idea. I would be surprised if it happens quickly because I just don't see where that the incentive comes from for that to happen. So I think this could run through till, you know, next summer easily Um with you know, just more and more speculation. What I think we do know now is that he does want out. I think all indications are that that is the case. So everton are going to have new owners at some point in the near future.
Speaker 2:Yes, all the intelligence that I have, as well as his mind tell, is is that, yeah, he Recognises that he now can't. He can't Maintain control of the club and also deliver on all the things that need to be delivered on, which was the other msp deal with the last sort of shot at that model when he maintained control but brought in new investment. I think there is now a recognition that it's not going to be possible for him to do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, all right, so we got about 12 minutes before we need to wrap up and, andy, you wanted to schedule some time to laugh at germany. So this seems I'm. We should make this a star. We make this a standing segment if it was up to me. But, uh, andy, go ahead, laugh at germany.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I just wanted to mention the current situation around the german national team. We all grew up with West germany as it was prior to prior to renew reunification, and now germany being this all conquering, unstoppable footballing force. They were got to the final tournaments, they got deep into tournaments, they won a lot of tournaments, um, you know, and they had some fantastic players, and to see the situation that they're in now Is it's quite the calm down. They're hosting the european championships next year, so they haven't got a qualification campaign. They're playing a series of friendlies and their record in those friendlies has been extremely poor, culminating in a recent four one home defeat by Japan, who also beat them in the last world cup, you might recall.
Speaker 3:That's resulted in hansey flick being the first german managed to be sacked, uh, in nearly a hundred years. Uh, that not happened since 1925. I don't know if some dude was sacked in 1925 or that was when the german national sort of f a Began, I don't know, but any either way, no, no, was re-sacked from that job in a very long time and he's managed to do it, um, in A series of friendlies, which is quite um, quite quite the uh, quite the achievement.
Speaker 2:So I just googled the 1925 thing and I'm going to read you from my oh yes, I saw, you saw some shoes. Wikipedia. For the first 20 years of existence, the team had no manager. The team was picked by a selection committee of the journal german football association before otto nerth was appointed the first head coach in 1926. So literally, hansey flick is not only the first german manager to be buying in more than 100 years, is the first german manager ever to be fired, if by understanding of what you're saying is correct.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it is. So the the sort of situation they're in now is quite remarkable. Obviously they they got dumped out the world cup into cart in katar of the group stage. And yeah, if, if, if I was a german football fan or, more importantly, somebody in the german f a, I would be looking at the forthcoming euro's with a large amount of trepidation Because they've got nine months to get a new manager in place and pick themselves up off the canvas To avoid what would be a pretty embarrassing um situation. Because if they don't go far At a tournament that they're hosting, then that's not going to be a very good look. And I just wanted to mention it because after seeing germany you know obviously famously beat england on penalties in uh in in 1990 in euro 96 as well it's just nice to um See them struggling a little bit.
Speaker 1:Yes, I'm then agreed. Random miner who lives in Germany, who say that there's no greater misunderstanding in the world than the Germans reputation for efficiency which the construction but Google Berlin airport.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's anybody listening who doesn't know the story about the airport, which is now open. But it will be an entertaining 10 minutes on how, as you said, it will destroy the Germans For efficiency. All right, go Just one example the roof of that airport was built too heavy for the supporting columns. That was one of them.
Speaker 3:It was like three times, three times here, yeah, the weight of the roof was something like three times greater than the capacity of the columns that was allegedly trying to support it. That's the sort of level of incompetency that you're talking about here.
Speaker 1:None of us are architects on this pod, but I think we would all. If a gun were put to our head and we said what are the criteria for walls, we would, in our top five answers, would come up with an ability to support the roof. I would fancy your average five year old to spot that problem. So yeah, google Berlin airport. God, I love it. All right, so that's all that done. We're going to talk about Arsenal. We play on Sunday, sunday afternoon UK time, late Sunday morning US time. Andy, how are we going to do against Arsenal who we beat last year? Just put that out there.
Speaker 3:We did beat last year. Yes, a very good header from James Tarkovsky, if memory serves him correctly. At the risk of sounding incredibly optimistic, I think we'll at least get a draw out of this game. I'm not going to go and say we're going to win it, but obviously it's going to be better. I assume he plays it's going to be better as home debut. The crowd are obviously going to be up for it. The score and a couple of goals finally against Sheffield United, we'll have given the team a bit of a boost. We've got a point on the board. The Sheffield United game is a foundation from which to build on and move forward. Arsenal haven't started the season quite as well as they finished last season. Thomas Party, I think, is being played. Is he being played at full back, I think, which?
Speaker 2:I think they changed that last game. Yeah, right, ok, because it's not that experiment in the last game.
Speaker 3:That was one experiment that I gather wasn't working very well, and Arsenal fans were wondering exactly what the idea behind that was. So they're clearly still a very good side. They're probably going to go into his favourites, but obviously it's a goodness, and so you never know. So I'll give my prediction as well. Now I'm going to go for an entertaining one all draw.
Speaker 1:Ben.
Speaker 2:I will have a pint of whatever Andy is obviously high on. We're going to lose 2-0 and it sort of doesn't matter, because Arsenal is not the game that decides our season. I think they're too good and we're not very good. So, yeah, we're going to lose 2-0.
Speaker 1:I think Arsenal are kind of shit at the moment. I think Everton are kind of shit at the moment. I think it's going to be no. No, I'm also like second.
Speaker 2:Like they haven't been very good. It's a funny definition of kind of shit.
Speaker 1:I think it's just. I'm with Roberto Martin, isn't this? You got to watch the performances. I just don't think Arsenal have been very good. They will be good and I think they've got a good squad and they've got a good manager. I just think they're figure, they're in that phase of the season where they've changed quite a lot about how they're trying to play and I still figuring that out, so it's actually a pretty good time to play them. I think we're a little bit still in that phase as well. All right, that, I think, is probably any last thoughts, gentlemen, before we wrap it up. All right, we'll hopefully be back next week. Hopefully, adam will be with us. Thanks for listening for us on Spotify, apple podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts, we're there. Leave us a review on any of those platforms that really just help stay, stay, stay well, and we'll see you on the other side.