You can donate to the GoFundMe in memory of Michael Jones at https://www.gofundme.com/f/xp6tt-michael-jones
Welcome to episode 61 of the Blues Brothers Everton podcast. I forgot what football team it was about, briefly, and I really did. I sometimes wish it was so me, ben and Adam are here and we're together in the room in Washington DC in Ben's apartment. So this is. I guess we haven't done one of these for about a year. Last time we were down in Florida. Sorry, andy can't join us, but it's great that we're here together.
Speaker 1:We'll get into a couple of things I wanted to talk about. We wanted to take a moment just to mention the passing of Michael Jones, who you know, an Evertonian who sadly died, who was working on the new stadium. None of us knew Michael, but you know we all know people like him and it's our thoughts go out to his friends and family. We know there's going to be a tribute of the game on Sunday, which is great and great to see both Everton and Villa fans prepare to do that, and there's a GoFundMe to raise funds for Michael's family, which we'll put a link to that in the show notes. So we just wanted to acknowledge Michael and because we know from reading about him in the last few days, he was a great fan of the club and was very proud to be working on the new stadium. I also want to say hi to a guy I met in the last few days, a guy called Andy who sits in the Gladys Street, sits in row F on the Gladys Street. I've never knew Andy until I met him this week, but I've seen him a thousand times because Andy is blind, and those of you who sit in the upper Gladys will know. That guy sits on the edge of the row and listens to the commentary on his wireless. We've joked for years that there were times when we would rather be blind, and I got to tell him that joke this week because Andy laughed at it. I bumped into him in a bar in New York because he was over just not on holiday with his partner, and it was awesome to meet him and hang out with him. Wait, so was he there to watch an editing game or did he just happen to be at the same bar in New York? So he'd gone to the Turmill? There's some New York Abitoneans who watch this. No one watches it except us. So he'd gone to the Turmill. And it was funny because I'll tell Jamie Rogers, if you're listening to this Andy had been in touch with Jamie Rogers and had said you know, come to the, where shall I go?
Speaker 1:Come to the Turmill. And Jamie had mentioned the Turmill, which is where the New York Abitoneans watch the games, and also Hibernia, which is kind of where we just kind of hang out. And Jamie failed to find Andrew. Andy in the bar during the game and Andy's description of himself was the guy with the white cane. Jamie failed to locate him, which is unfortunate because there's no fucking way Andy can help with that. But he booked into Pete Camel, who some of you will know is a great friend of ours, and then separately he ended up going to Hibernia later and I was in there with Pete. So it was sort of partly it was like he didn't go there specifically to see anybody, he just heard this was a good bar and I happened to be in there and it was a really surreal moment. I said to these guys I've seen this guy literally because Andy's noticeable right, because he's like a blind guy at a football match, so it's like you notice him. We've had seats in the upper ladder street for 30 years now and so literally thousands of times. So it was really great to meet him and his partner, john, and they're having a great time in New York, so it's going to be good to be able to say hello to a properly one of our next backers.
Speaker 1:Anyway, with the parish notices out of the way, adam, how are you doing? I'm good, thank you. Yeah, it's great to be here with us and you guys in Washington and then obviously with you in New York for a couple of days. Austin, just doing some sight, museum, museum, museums and enjoying the sun. I'm having a good time. Yeah, weather's fantastic here today. Ben, how's things? Yeah, good, I'm nice and lovely to have you both here. Lovely to have Adam here for the first time. And we've been. You know you've been enjoying the pool privileges on my rooftop. Last time I've been working hard, so you know the balance there seems a little bit off as far as I'm concerned, but I'm glad that you're able to enjoy it.
Speaker 1:It's all technically meant to be working today, so, including that detail, didn't hate the afternoon I spent by the pool, all right, so we're going to do. We're going to talk about Everton, we're going to talk about full and we're going to talk about some transfer stuff with Chee Adams and Nonto, and certainly Andrew's not here to give us another pronunciation lesson which denies us a cold open for the second week running. So we just realised and, listener, it may astound you that we do plan this but in the planning of this we totally forgot to mention talking about Jack Harrison. Oh yeah, we should also. We should also. We're so professional. Yes, I mean, I did forget at the start what team we supported. We're on to a great start. Everything's going great. So we're going to talk about that. Then we'll preview the game on Sunday. We're recording this on Friday.
Speaker 1:You probably listened to it on Saturday or Sunday, so that game's obviously coming up pretty quick. Adam, I'm going to start with you. You were at the film game. I depended you. I did watch it. I watched it on the TV but, adam, you were there. So start there. Talk us through that game and how it was. You know what it was like being there in the crowd and you know what your experience of that game was. And all of us talked to the public podcast about what we wanted to see in that game. I was surprised, like the cover. I was surprised that the cover was not involved whatsoever, and Andrew made the point about how. You know, we wanted to see a style of particular style of play in the absence of Calvert Luin, and we definitely, definitely saw, saw that you know the result was really disappointing and I was, you know, I was pretty miserable coming out of, coming out of the concourse at last weekend.
Speaker 1:The performance was absolutely fantastic and you know we played that game another 99 times and we win it comfortably Because if we could finish, you know we win that 3-1, 4-1,. You know, easily, our expected goals was about two and a half compared to Fullens, like 1.3, I think it was. Didn't we set a record for XG and the Premier League? Not for a team that didn't score, it was. I don't know if it was a record, it was the highest. It was higher than any game last season where a team didn't score. So it was like we got an XG, I think of like 2.9, 2.9 or something. Yeah, 2.9, 3. It was 2.9,3 and we didn't score, which, as I say, didn't happen in any game played any time last season. That's how bad we are Carry on actually.
Speaker 1:So, tactically, we were really really good. For those of you that watched it, I'm sure you'll agree. We had a clear way of going about thing, which was, as we saw in numerous times last season under Dice, particularly at the Arsenal game which was to win the ball high and play from there, and not once did Fullam pass through us. They kept trying to play it out from the back and you could tell that their defenders were not comfortable with our pressing and they genuinely didn't know what to do with it at all. So but on the going from back to front, what was pleasing was that you could clearly see that. You know we weren't we're not a team that can play it from back to front and play it through another team.
Speaker 1:But we did. We didn't just lump it long, you know. We did pass it to our full backs and central defenders at Goldkicks, and then what the plan was which was great to see was like you had Decoy and Anana who would act as like a focal point for a longer pass, and then they would bring the players into play. Morpay was a target a couple of times, but he wasn't. It wasn't a launch up to Morpay and watch it straight come back, which is what we saw a lot under Lampard last season.
Speaker 1:So If we, if we, could finish you know we're talking here about what a fantastic victory it was and it's a real shame that we're not, and because the performance genuinely was really really good and you can't Fault the tactics, you can't fault the effort. The only thing you can really fault is, or you know, poor finishing and just to address that, a couple of things. Like people say, you know, say more problems with Everton. Like you know, we couldn't, we couldn't, we can't score. That the reason we couldn't, we couldn't score last season we weren't creating the chances, but we created numerous chances this.
Speaker 1:This time we had a real clear game plan and, as I said, we play that game another 99 times and we've waited comfortably because they're going they can't mean we missed chances, for sure, but they're keeper made a couple of really good yeah, same as well. So you know it's not just our own yeah, and also it's just you know, as always with these things it can also be a little bit of look at the draw, like, if you look at the decor, a chance, right, if you watch the slow motion replay, the, the god of burlano in the full and goal, gets like his toenail on that shot right and deflects it wide. So a millimeter, either way you go, oh, that's a great finish and nice and can't call collected, we're one or within five minutes and the gates a totally different game. So I think you can be Disappointed at the result, which we all are. Well, afterwards, after the game, I was actually pretty positive about what it said about our chances this season, because I just don't think and I saw the leader to that said this as much as this in his post match it was like you keep creating chances like that, you keep playing like that, you keep with yourselves in those positions, you're gonna score goals, you're gonna win football matches. So I just felt like, yeah, it was annoying because we should have won that game. We should have been two, three nil for half time and it's frustrating that we weren't. But, as Adam said, it is a million miles away from where we, where the problems were last season, where it looked like we just couldn't create a chance, whereas we created four or five really, really good chances. And also, the other thing I want to say is, like you know, I'm a we are big.
Speaker 1:Nil won't pay critics. I think he is unfortunately in a situation when he was brought in to play a role that he can't fulfill, but in in in terms of being a backup to Calvary women and how you want to play when you've got Calvary women in the team. He missed One chance which he should have scored the through ball from an honor. Another chance where I think he can basically only do the thing he did, which is stab it towards golf in a yard and hope it goes in. Yeah, the bigger misses for me, actually with a decor a one because I think the cori's got much more time to pick his spot and also has James Garner to pass it to to roll it in the net, and the Nathan Patterson one when it the keeper saves a shot from. I think it was a woe be and all Patterson. So all he has to do is control it, like, literally, he doesn't need to, he doesn't need to smash it, he doesn't. If he just controls it, keeps it down, he scores. So I think it's.
Speaker 1:There is a lot of focus on more pay because of the history, because of you know, we always called one to that scene, etc. Etc. But it is worth. It was a collective team failing in not scoring. It wasn't just. Oh, we would have won if Neil Mopey wasn't rubbish. Yeah, yeah, that makes. That makes a ton of sense.
Speaker 1:What was the crowd mood like had in the crowd. It was one of them, understandable, like deflation, but there was no, there was no booing or anything, and it like that the crowd knew that they played really well, yeah, and they were frustrated, you know as much as the players and Sean Dice would have been at the outcome of the game because they everyone knew in that stadium Including, you know for, including for them, fans they knew they, absolutely like they, they, we were robbed and you know, yeah, mark has said that. After that, you know, I've actually was like ever since deserve more. And when the threshold for an opposition manager said yes, exactly, yeah, exactly. So it like there was no, there was no sense of like, here we go again and stuff. It was just, it was just frustration really that the fact we couldn't take our opportunities. What was the?
Speaker 1:Dan Duba came on as a sub right, yeah, any thoughts on from I do you on on seeing him for 20 minutes, whatever it was I it's tough because you know it was. It wasn't his first game in English football, it's first game for us. He's he was, he's coming back from a injury, so he hadn't, he hadn't trained properly, he was only playing 20 minutes. I thought, you know, he had that one chance, which work. I think he was actually upside, as it turns out, where he's spooned wide. So you want to see him do better in those situations. I think the the challenge or not the challenge, because it was one game but I I think the difficulty is that he was brought on to play as a center forward and I don't actually think that's his position. I think he's a second striker or a, you know, plays off. Why plays on the left, mostly coming in. So it's always difficult to judge when you it's. It's like, you know, it's like when we played Damari Gray in that position. So I'll go, he's doing a job, but that's not where he's meant to be, you know.
Speaker 1:And we'll come on to talk about Che Adams. But I think if you look at the players, uh, that we are missing or were missing Um for that game. You look at, you know, you basically don't have Danjoumen. You came on for 20 minutes at the end. You don't have McNeil, you don't have Calvin Lewin. We've now now signed Jack Harrison. If you go between those four people, you're gonna get 20, 25 goals. You would expect between those four, that's like. And then you add a. You think? That's before you get into. Are we gonna sign Che Adams? Are we gonna sign William Anto? If we create that number of chances every game, that group of players will score enough goals to keep us in the Premier League. I've got no, no doubt about that at all. Yeah, that makes complete sense. It was good to see. The other thing, I'll say before we wrap up it was good to see Lewis Dobbin. It's kind of, yeah, they're there about some. Whether that is the case, if we sign, the players are signing or he may go All alone, but you know he's a player's been talked about for a long time and it's obviously played a lot in preseason, so it's good to see him getting some game time as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we, defensively, we were sound, we were very sound as well and that's a testament not so much to our the structure of our back four, um, and especially mentioned, to actually actually young. We were good, yeah, a good debut, particularly going forward, and you know we often took quite a lot of attacking threat, um, but it was the, it was the fact that we defended straight from the front. You know we had a really clear game plan of winning the ball high and you know you can have players who will lack technical ability and it's fair to say, you know um. You know Anana and decor and and gay are not the most technically gifted players, but they can and they will um Put forward a game plan that the manager has something to do and if you can do that, you know you will create chances, as we did. And um, you know we'll win plenty of football matches and this is particularly at home, um, where you know the, where the impetus is is almost to to try and get up to to um to win the game. Yeah, I think the mood, you know it was almost like comical the way we From like watching it with a bunch of the new york epitonians, like it was almost comical the way we lost it because you could see it coming in the curse, the evilsons, yeah, yeah, we're absolutely battering them and then they score a goal.
Speaker 1:But the other player I wanted to mention, and because you know there is some talk about whether A big big comes in for him, but I was really impressed with Anana, yeah, and not just because we knew we know that he's physical and we know that he drives and we know that you know you can do all that physical stuff and you can do all that well. But I was really impressed with his progressive passing, like there was, I mean, the, the decor a One-on-one and the mope one-on-one were both um yeah, so like I was really pleased to see how he's Looks to be settling into that midfield, because we've always, you know, one of the big problems we had Last season was that lack of progressive passing from the midfield, that we were very limited in terms of our ability to play through the lines. And if he is Now more comfortable doing that, you know he's I think he's just turned 22 this week, so happy birthday, amadoo. But um, because obviously he listens to us, um, but now that he's sort of been a year in the league, a year older, more developed, more comfortable with the pace of play, if he can Offer that from midfield and we can keep hold of him, I think that puts us in really a really good position for the season as well. Yeah, it's.
Speaker 1:It's interesting with Anana because there's been sort of talk of maybe man, you know I to being interested in him and he's someone who's had Transfer room is pretty consistently, and the good thing I guess we've talked about is the market for those cut from midfield. This is gone bonkers. So, yeah, you know, we can sell ago for a hundred and fifty million or something in the end. So me, I say no. I say no. Yeah, I realized that you're on a struggle with Dan Juma's name because I get mixed up with Din Jarin from the Mandalorian. I mean, at least, at least can sell. It was a foot, confusing a fictional character and a footballer. But I agree, I think, like you know people were talking. You know there was the when the story came out, that man you know I might be interested, it was. You know an Everton would want minimum 50 million and everyone's like, oh, minimum 50 million. It's like, okay, that's a figure put out there by. Like, it's not Everton putting that figure out there. Like you look at Romain Lavia who went for, I think, 60 plus, yeah, and would to check to Chelsea that is the bare minimum of your from a relegated Jammer's and all the incompetence at Everton and that has been grossing confidence.
Speaker 1:We've sold players well, yeah, like, if you look at someone we've done consistently, I would say maybe even joy, excuse me during Kenwrights tenure. We've sold players well, like, think about, like, what player did we Sell cheaply where we were in. You know, to like barky, we're in just a shitty negotiations because he put us there. No, if you think about the players we saw, we've sold very, very well. There'll be a lot of listeners now they're screaming Where's your tether money? Yes, it's. Our tether was about was like we've got 10 million for him. But that was a bad Negotiate. That was we were in a really bad negotiation. But there are plenty of. There are plenty of options, like the thing like you know, julie less about 25 million. John Stones 50 million, yeah, and Richard Rodwell, the car coup, like we've sold, we sold consistently right, we have sold consistently well. And Sam Gordon's way a good, really good reason example, yeah, and the other thing as well as now I'm not sure if you watch the money night water match, but the price went up every time.
Speaker 1:Walls danced through man United's midfield like it wasn't better. I couldn't believe it. I just show about me to let's take a segue, because we never stand on an agenda. That referent decision to not give walls apathy in that game was Like astonishing, and I don't mean like I assume that most like I think the standard of refereeing in the premier league you know that so many times now is basically poor. Yes, right like, it's just not very good and it's it's, it's the, it's the equivalent of a closed system. There's no verification of that right Like, so you know, like so that we don't see Bundesliga referees, we don't see like the ego referees, we don't know whether or but I think my strong, strong, strong, a bit suspicion is that the Then we won't make you speak to this in too much detail, but that they're like. There's a profound arrogance around the Premier League which Gets into refereeing where they assume, because it's the Premier League, they must be, you know, at least very good, and I think they're genuinely very poor even by that standard.
Speaker 1:To watch that and not give a like, I cannot. You go, well, you know, you sort of do end up in a slightly flat earth conspiracy theory place where you go Under what possible circumstances Can that not be a penalty, other than it's injury time? It's all traffic. I am not giving a penalty. Yeah, I think it's either that. I think it's that or For me, I genuinely think they went that the I was put out.
Speaker 1:I was critic, critic, quite critical of Simon Hooper At the time, and it's not so much his fault because it, like you know, it is easy to miss that sort of thing If you know, if you're not necessarily looking, and you should spot it because it's quite you know, that's where the ball is and I think he did see it and he should. He should give it. But the main criticism really needs to lay with my Michael Salisbury, who was the VAR, because he is literally the only person who must have thought that was not a penalty. I can only imagine it's either you could go as far to say corruption, because you know, last minute, old Trafford opening day not giving that. That is a genuine possibility. Yeah, the only the other possibility I think it could be is that he went into it with a like a mindset of like it's hard to sort of explain like that it's okay for a goalkeeper to do that because it's a goalkeeper, yeah, and they some sort almost have like some sort of Extra protection in terms of when they go for the ball, like if that's a defender doing that and he like catches in with an elbow, not like, yeah, you know That'd be that it'd be a penalty, yeah, and it's like that goalkeepers a have extra protection, as we saw in the full and game when top.
Speaker 1:You know Tarkovsky and, yeah, I still still did absolutely nothing and you know, obviously we didn't get a. We got a perfectly good goal disallowed and I will I hate to interrupt you there. It wasn't a foul. Tarkovsky wasn't far from the goalkeeper, it was offside Because it gave. No, that's not what the game, the decision was incorrect. If it had gone to be I just want to clear this up the decision was incorrect, it was about Tarkovsky. But the ball then hits Tarkovsky on the knee and goes to Michael Keaton's in an offside position, he sticks in the net. So if it I just want to like if it had gone to the AR, I wouldn't have been, it would not have been a goal. And I just so I just want to make because there's a lot of people have gone on about that instant and it was a terrible decision for the decision they made because it wasn't a foul. But if it had gone to the AR it wouldn't make, it wouldn't have been a goal because Michael Keaton was offside. Intervention, very good.
Speaker 1:And as an aside to that, you know you said I wasn't sort of aware of, I wasn't aware of that as a rule, until you put it on our group is that the, the referee in the Everton Fulham game whose name escapes me now, stuart Atwell, thank you. And sure at well he blew up. He blew the whistle before it went to, before it went over the line which meant that VAR couldn't intervene. And it's like that's your job, mate. It's like that's your job to remember to let the game go and then number and the amount of like of Tuitioning must have had about that sort of thing, like they are. It's gonna be a very different way of playing, guys. It's gonna be you've got to let things go, because if you don't let things go and you get trigger happy, then we can't implement this system that is going to help you. And it's like how do you not remember to do that? And on that I'm on. So it's like that's basic incompetence. I genuinely think that Microsoft 3 did that because he is fundamentally incompetent as a referee. I think the thing on on the it's not even a VAR thing because, like the level of you know referring, I did you.
Speaker 1:You're always taught like wait, wait when you're playing advantage, wait before you blow up out because, and the way that plays out, imagine a world you don't have VAR. Right, and that same instant happens. You can do one of two things. Right. The keeper jumps, Tarkovsky falls over. You know the keeper.
Speaker 1:Just on Tarkovsky, go force Michael Key, michael Key and stick it in the net. If you wait, you're leaving yourself lots of options, right, because what if Michael Key and sticks it wide, happy days, you give a gold kick. You weren't gonna rule out a goal anyway, it was a goal kick. He missed an open goal. No one's talking about you. They're talking about how Michael Key can't finish.
Speaker 1:If he sticks it in the net and you think it's a foul, you give a foul and you take that. If he sticks it in the net and the assistant sticks his flag up, you go hey, he was up. He's like let's have a look. He's like I've been. I go have a conversation, he's outside. By blowing the whistle straight away, you take all of those options away and everything then becomes about you making that decision. So it's not even I agree he should have waited, but the failure to wait is not even a VAR thing. I would have been embarrassed not to wait in that situation and in your reviews you would have been told you should have wait. Yeah, but also coming back to the walls. One at well wasn't, but Simon Hooper and Michael Salisbury were Taken off their games this coming the weekend because of that, which I was. I'm never pleased to see referees, like you know, castigated and punished because as a profession, you know to read a good job. You know there are not enough of them. They take enough abuse.
Speaker 1:I was in some way happy that Howard Webber now is in charge and of this sort of thing, was willing to say no, there has to be some accountability. Yes, for this bad decision. Yeah, sorry, but that was a problem with Mike Riley, wasn't it? He just made a completely Opaque system, a completely Opaque system where there was no accountability. Well, the band had said no to that. The problem what? There was accountability, but it was never communicated.
Speaker 1:That was one of the most fundamentally no, fundamentally annoying things, particularly for managers, for players, but mostly for fans, because they weren't aware of the things and there's nothing more. I mean, everyone is wired literally to find unfairness very frustrating and everyone likes just world in whatever way that is, and that is going completely against that. Yeah, and a very fundamental human level. Well, that has to be scrutiny. Right, because you know, I agree with you, except I don't know if there was accountability, because I think there was such a sense under the previous regime and I agree.
Speaker 1:But I was pleased, I think, the thing that Howard Webber is doing with that and with sort of having people listening to BAR and I know they're open to you know there's a trial going on, women's well-cooked about having on referees do the thing that. You know we live in America now it's very, very common for you know officials to just say explain the decisions of the crowd on TV. It's not a crazy thing at all, it's not that when there isn't that scrutiny, no organization is healthy, you know, because they're just listening to themselves. And of course there's a reason why you know Michael Salisbury. Of course there's a reason he will point to and say you know, well, you know, here's why I did what I did, but he's wrong. Yeah, that's the point and there should be controversy. I don't want to like yeah, you've experienced it, we'll know it like referees should be looked after.
Speaker 1:But actually I think, perversely, the level of protection, the absolute protection of the people who have made that harder because it created a sense of offense, you know, whereas you want, if you have, I think it takes the heat out of it to have people say, yeah, we fucked that up and you know, yeah, there's a consequence and you know what, if you do that too much, you're not going to be there anymore, right? Because that's like who you know? Most of the people listening to this have a job. We all have jobs, and there's no one else in the planet who has a job where, like you, can be as shit as you like and it doesn't matter unless you're like president or something. But like you know, like, but they can lose elections. Yeah, it's not a radical, yes, it's a job that's in the public eye. But the thing I would say is, as sort of to round that out, is it's a job in the public eye. They chose to do yeah. Yeah, you know, and I think there's about anyone who does a job in the public eye assuming I would never do is. You did choose to do it and there's parts of it that suck and are very, very difficult, but you did choose to put yourself in that situation. So, yeah, you know, I know one made you. I think there's a good for me.
Speaker 1:There's a good litmus test of the quality of the referees, and it's the fact that John Mosso is pretty much universally regarded as a poor referee when, before he retired, is now in charge of, he's basically one of. He's basically one of, like Howard Webber's lieutenants. Effectively he's in charge of a team and, all right, in theory, theoretically, he might be a better referee than he is practically, but on the evidence we bought, like what we've seen he is a poor referee who, for me, signifies the complete lack of depth and quality that exists in the refereeing system. And obviously, stuart Atwell. I'll say this Stuart Atwell had a good game for following, apart from, you know, not letting me to fool him. You had a great game for fooling him In the evidence, in the evidence in the game. Yeah, sort of. You're misunderstanding the rules of what I'm saying and of course, I know you've watched this Everton for a long time get shit on by officials but they're not meant to play for the team.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, and a lot of I love Evertonians like, yeah, put a hell of a lot of weight behind the, the Michael Keane disallowed goal, and it's like we didn't lose that because Stuart Atwell didn't, you know, disallowed a goal, and obviously rightly so. And now it's come out it was offside, but because we were, we were crap and it's like referees can unfortunately sometimes be a. They can be, they can be yeah, they can be like Rockford for other things, and that's not and that's not fair on that, in that, in that situation, the Walls in the United game absolutely fair, it was fucking assault, and you know what I think when that is. I think it was so. It was so egregious that it like there's a aperture of fouls that referees are looking for and it's like if you take a gun out and shoot someone, they don't know what to do Because it's like so familiar and I was like it was so, because it was so foul, it was like that they just froze.
Speaker 1:Basically, I don't know if I've ever seen that before. You're sort of looking at the rulebook going. It's such a foul I don't know which category it falls into Like it just took, you know, attempt to take a poe and it's head off Because it was a very, very famous I don't know who it was, was it? And it was the old, I think it was West Germany where the goalkeeper oh, it was just very broke his neck. He broke his neck, yeah, a striker just broke his neck and it was like not no, didn't even. This is sort of 70s or something, but even then that was a foul and it was the same sort of thing where it was like so egregious they just carried on. You know, it's a.
Speaker 1:I always think about this stuff and I'm like I don't want to necessarily compare apples and oranges, but, like you know, don't come focus and went to prison for a foul once. I just think there's like, there is like should be some, you know, recognition of the fact that it's all over the place. Saying all of that, if we stay up over wolves by a point at the end of the season, I'm going to say Simon Hooper, a fucking Christmas Ampere. Yes, yes, all right, let's talk about signing. So we forgot about Jack Harrison. Let's talk about him. God bless him, and then we'll talk about some of the media that are going to come in. Adam Ostar, will you talk to me about Jack Harrison? What do we see in him? What do we expect?
Speaker 1:I thought it was an interesting sort of saga with Villa having a late kind of attempt and maybe the player was interested in, but then he's injured and you know whatever, but like he's never to play over the line done, what do you think he brings to us? He's a good player. He was one of Lee's as better players last season. You know him and him and Nonto I think he had a bit of his form dipped and Wayne, as it as it as it would with, you know, a tea battle and relegation, but he came through City's Academy. You know City were didn't really want to let him go when they actually sold him to Lee's, and Lee's paid, you know, about 20 million for him when they bought him. So he's a good player, mid 20s coming into his prime. One of the most. One of the best things about him, though, is that it's the fact that he's and he's he can play all across the front line, and he's both footed as well.
Speaker 1:So, like Ben made the point last podcast about the sort of profile of player that we're getting, is that players. You know we're not going to be blessed for real quality in that in terms because of our financial play restrictions. So the players that we are getting are going to be a profile of players that, where they you know one game you might start on the right and then you know they can move to the left at 20 minutes and swap, swap around. So I think that's something that will probably see quite a lot. You know, if, like it was Dan Dumer on one side and Harrison on the other side, for argument sake, like they will swap throughout the games, and Harrison someone who can play quite centrally as well, so yeah, he's a good player and I'm not going to put too much emphasis on the fact that you know you wanted to. You prefer to go to the other who would just? You know you can sit there and pretend like that's a slight against us. It's not at all. You know we were in that position. You know we were in that position when we were finishing fifth and sixth in the league. You know a few what seems like God knows how long ago now. So you know he obviously wants to come, wants to play for us. Yeah, so we're getting a good player that really fits the profile and the way the format and the transfer happen works as well with them. You know it's alone with a, with an option to buy as well. So financially it suits as well. Yeah, there's a. This is a weird comparison, so stay with me.
Speaker 1:There's a scene in the BBC comedy drama, the thick of it, where two of the characters are sat in the back of a car and they there's this whole joke they do about. I need, I need an idea that's you know, free, popular, that I can announce in five minutes Like I think Jack Harrison is like that, signing for Everton, because like we need somebody who can create and score goals, who wanted to join us, but also cost for call, and like he does actually meet all of those requirements because the loans free, because his contract dictated that it had to be free after we are relegated, so we're just paying his wages, we have the option to buy he. If you look at his sort of XA, you know assists and goals and stuff. He scores goals, he creates goals and you play with both feet. He fits Dice's system perfectly in terms of how hard he, how hard a worker is. And to Adam's point about the versatility, I think it is genuinely some of the smartest business we have done in absolutely ages. I was over the moon when it, when it was announced, and then I was mortally depressed when I thought we'd been presumpt by Villa and then obviously it came out back round to us in the end. So I was like really, really, really pleased because I think he will have a big part to play for us this season and you know, we talked all the time about needing players who can chip in with goals and I think he will. He will do that and, as we're sat in the United States, he's a product of.
Speaker 1:He's a product of the MLS system. How is he? Yeah, he was at man City's Academy In New York. Well, he was at man City Academy and then he didn't feel that. I think there's a story about his mum basically feeling like he was never going to get a chance. So he was drafted in the MLS draft by New York City FC, who were owned by man City, and he played for, I think, two years over here. Before then he went back With your Jesse Marsh I don't think he was a Jesse. Oh, he might have been a Jesse Marsh. No, he wasn't Jesse Marsh signing because he was at BLS signing. He was on loan at LEED for a couple of years before they signed him permanently. So, yeah, he has an American connection, as we are currently sat here. So what do we think about Nonto?
Speaker 1:There was a great tweet that you told us about earlier on, from, I think. Was it the 1878? Which one? There's so many of them. The Grand Old Team are currently retweeting them all. The one that I actually mentioned was that. So, for those of you catching up, about 10 minutes before we started recording David Ornstein at the Athletic broke news that Willie Nonto had handed in a transfer request to LEED because he wants to come to Everton, and the Grand Old Team, the famous Everton forum and the Twitter account just tweeted that Willie Nonto wants to play for Everton more than they do. But they are currently now retweeting every other Willie Nonto joke, and I'm going to take the second to read you a couple.
Speaker 1:Willie Nonto conducts Operation Goodison Exercise in his own home. Willie Nonto's wake-up alarmist spirit of the blues. Willie Nonto boos himself in the mirror to get the full Goodison experience. Willie Nonto's willing to wait 30 minutes for a pint in the windslow. And then there was another brewery, one which I want to scroll up to find, which is Willie Nonto calls his sister Gladys, even though her name is Winnie. So he is obviously really determined to come, and he's very rare that the player is really determined to join us. It makes you suspicious. Let's be honest with you. What scam is being done? Which agent is getting some bong from somebody? There's something fucking fishy in here. What the fuck Does he want to come play for us and he's doing all the classic modern day football stuff, like Jack Harrison put on Instagram a picture of him in an Everton shirt. The classic. Can't wait to get started. Wonderful club.
Speaker 1:And it was liked by Willie Nonto at the bottom, obviously, I imagine Chavette de Lise. They're probably hanging out for it because they're in Cupid more money. They're going to hang out until they squeeze the orange drive but interestingly, their strategy is falling apart. I think their strategy might be falling apart a little bit because of how the leads' fans are behaving, because in the last couple of days there has been a couple of things. There was a board left outside their training ground with a list of players basically calling them Scum and saying they want to have watched. Nonto was on. There was a poster which was at their game tonight which was Willie Nonto's head like Photoshopped onto a giant baby throwing his rattle. And apparently, when the game started so we need to play West Brom tonight when the game started the first chant from the leads' fans was an anti-Willi Nonto chant.
Speaker 1:So it's difficult for Lee to go. He's not for sale. We want to keep him Because we're going to go like we don't think you do. It becomes more difficult for Lee to go. Well, it's more money. It's more money Because at some point you go. Well, okay, we're not paying any more money. It's reintegrating into your squad and there aren't more. I don't mean this disrespectfully at all to Lee's fans, but there aren't more of a tribal fan base around them, lee's fans. Once those sort of fans turn against you, you are dead. So there's no way he's being reintegrated into the squad. No way they will sell him this win, because they have to, because it would just be so destructive and destructive to try and get him back into the fold. So therefore, if you're Everton, it starts to swing a little bit the other way. Where you go, hey, look, we know you're going to sell him. So I suspect what will happen is it will go quiet, we'll all sit around and then on deadline day, it will get done Because Leeds go. Alright, fine, we will finally do it, because Leeds want a bit of more right. They want someone else to commit and there hasn't been any suggestion. There is anybody else. Well, another team won't seriously do that if he really wants to come and play for us, but you can probably get some fuck about from the agents or from Leeds trying to get their mates to come and whoever their friends will come in. So I think we need to practice patience with Nonto, and that's not something Evertonians are necessarily good at when it comes to transfers, because we all wanted all of our players signed on the first day the window was open and if not, we want Kevin Fellwell's head. But that's not how modern football works and therefore we'll just need to practice some patience. I absolutely expect Willie Nonto to be an Everton player come the 1st of September, if not before. Yeah, I agree, awesome.
Speaker 1:Just to talk about Chet Adams a little bit, I know I have obviously sort of more than heard of, but you were, adam. I think I saw maybe a tweet from you earlier on about. There may have been a WhatsApp message. It all kind of morphs into one. Yeah, honestly about. Like you know, everton fans are like people being shitty about the idea of a signing chair. I was like what's your thinking on that as a, as a, you know, striking option for us? Yeah, it was. Yeah, you're right, it was. It was X, as it now is it's called, but we all call it Twitter. It was a. Yeah, it was a, it was.
Speaker 1:It was a Evertonian who said like that, oh, he fits the same, he fits the same style as that. Morpay and probably, as you saw, any hit list is sort of a very excited dog just joined us. Gus is. Gus is making his first appearance on the podcast. So if you're only fanting in the background, that's not off to the, that's the dog. The barking is definitely me. There you go. Okay, that's fine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was like a number of other, like saying how he's going to be, why are we signing him? He's got, he's got, you know, he's got a similar gold scoring record to to more pay, and I was just like you know, face palming things. Like he's not being signed to score goals necessarily, and that sounds a bit oxymoronic in terms of a striker, but like he's being signed to be a, to be a presence and someone who will fit Dice's system and he absolutely does fit Dice's system, like because he's he's. He's like, he's six foot one, he's quick, he presses really well and his gold scoring record is not, you know, not poor by any means, and you know, and he talked and also he's talking about in a system like where you know he was signed.
Speaker 1:He played for Southampton for two seasons where you know who were not prolific scorers and obviously got relegated last season. So if you were looking for like a striker who was going to get like a goal, every other game like that ain't going to happen and you get in a play who's got good Premier League experience and but, most importantly, he suits for Dice style because he will, he'll run channels, he'll press, he's, he's, he's strong, he could be a focal point for an attack and it takes the pressure as well off. It takes the pressure off having to play more pay as a central striker because unfortunately, you know he's shown Presumably it takes the pressure off and pay more pay at all. Yes, exactly, I mean our kick man's retiring, so more pay, there's a vacancy there. It'd be interesting to see. Well I mean you know, well, I mean more pay did well in a in a Brighton system where they, you know, played it from the front and played it. You know a patient player on the 18 year box getting crosses in and so about that. And he went through a period when he played with a another striker at Brighton and before we went for it as well. So you know, it'd be interesting to see whether he could operate in a, in a fourth, in a two striker system. But that's, you know, a different point and it and for the record, I don't think he can, but you know he definitely can't work as a single, as a striker on his own, and so I think it's a good signing and 12 million, I think, is good price for to pay for him as well. Yeah, I agree with all of that.
Speaker 1:I think there is a lot of, there's a lot of negativity around Adams because he's not I mean, let's be honest because he's not some you know foreigner that we've all never heard of, with a sexy name who's going to cost us 30 million pounds. But like what? What he is is all the things I haven't said. He fits the system he's experienced and two other things I would bring up. The athletic did a really good piece about Everton trying to replace a dominant capital or find somebody similar to them and as part of their likes. There's a model that they sort of buy into which is and looks at different players based on a whole load of input, and they produced a list of basically the top 20 players in world football who most closely resembled Dominic Calvin Lewis, and like on number seven or eight on that list, was Chay Adams. So you can see why Dices and farewell have wanted, because they're like he fits the system, he will unlock the potential for other players to score goals. But the problem is is that, like Evertonians, like well, I want a 25 goal, a seasoned striker, and I want him like to be free and I want him to be born in you know. You know we're all like and you're like we don't get all of those things. You get some of those things and like I think, if we get Chay Adams, having got Chimichi in you and hopefully a fit Dominic Calvin, you're in a much better situation as a, as a, as a team and a set of strikers than we were at the world last season.
Speaker 1:The final thing I will bring up and I am reliably informed, this actually has nothing to do with the football club, but Chay Adams middle name is Everton. Yeah, what he is, it's a not uncommon Afro Caribbean name. He is Chay Zach Everton. Fred Adams yeah, it is. I don't know the historic origins of it, but it is a. It's a not uncommon name from people from families who are originally from the Caribbean, which I guess he does. But yeah, his middle name is Everton. So there you go. If you were going to sign for any other reasons, I can't be. Many people have ever played for Emerson, any name that was ever. I mean, that may be the first one, yeah, so there you go. So he'll be a good. He'll be a good signing if we get him out of the line.
Speaker 1:I think, if, if, with Harrison, if you get Nonto in it, you get Adams in with I, we finish 1430. It starts to look like a really transfer. Yeah, yeah, and that is worth actually, very briefly, it is worth actually reflecting on the transfer window that we had, because there's a lot of criticism for Everton Football Club and there's a lot of criticism in terms of transfers. But it is worth looking at. And for those of you not not watching, I'm now furiously scrolling through my phone to find the and the dog has a squeaky toy. The dog has a squeaky toy, so this will be fascinating.
Speaker 1:Obviously, january was bad. We needed a strike. We didn't get one. That was awful. But if you look at last summer and this summer, I'm going to read you a list of players that we have brought in Tarkovsky, mcneill, cody Garner, idrissege, anana, ashley Jung, danjuma, harrison Chimichi, with Nonto and Che Adams likely to come in. There are two others on that list Neil Mopay and Ruben Van Agra. They are really the only two who you could classify as failing. I think every other player on that list has done their job and been a quote unquote good signing. So for all of the Everton and Rubbish transfers, everton and Rubbish at this. Everton and Rubbish at that, I genuinely think Kevin Fellwell is really good at his job.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and January is a bizarre. We all know this. January is a very weird time to be trying to make major transfers. Oh yeah, you can count on, like one hand, the number of transfers per window that actually work out in that season or the coming season, and also the other thing about January is that we'd have got Danjuma if we didn't have to sack Lampard, and that wasn't Fellwell's fault. If we'd signed Danjuma in the January transfer window, no one would have been going on about oh well, we had a rubbish January transfer window, we'd have gone. Hey, we signed someone who helped our attack in a difficult window.
Speaker 1:So talk about Villa. Yeah, let's talk about Villa. So Sunday at 9am here. What the hell time is that at home 2pm 2pm, everton, villa, villa got kind of creamed in their first game like unexpectedly Looks really bad Because they were very good last year and I think we all kind of rate Unai Emery and I think it was a surprising thing and early days can't really tell very much. But yeah, I'm interested in how Everton first away game.
Speaker 1:Ben, what are your feelings and thoughts going into this? Yeah, it's difficult, because if you'd asked me before last week's game games their game and our game I'd have gone. I'll lose and that's sort of okay for us to play well, I wasn't expecting too much out of it. But watching them last week, and obviously they lost Tyrone Mingz to a serious knee injury and they really looked all at sea and they really looked like they were half baked. They didn't look fit, they looked really really really poor and I just think and maybe, I don't know, maybe I've discovered a newfound optimism in this season. Newfound optimism, yeah, sure would. But I just think that this could be one of those surprising games where we pick up.
Speaker 1:I'm not saying we're going to win at a canter, but I wouldn't be surprised if we came out of this with a draw or even like a one. They'll win because we played really well last week and they played awfully and Newcastle were good. But I reckon if Villary put that performance in against every other team in the Premier League, 16 of them would have scored two or three goals because they were just wide open at the back. There was no defensive solidity at all. So I actually feel pretty confident. I'm not saying we'll definitely win.
Speaker 1:What I'm looking for can we put in a good performance? Can we look to be creating chances? Can we just, calvertlewin, get back and get involved? I think that's a big thing that needs to happen sooner rather than later. If those things happen, I can see us getting at least a point and I can actually see us winning that game. But if those things happen and we lose, that's still okay. No one gets relegated because they lose their first two games of the season. Yeah, always a way to develop. Yeah, exactly Good team, adam. What do you think? Yeah, alice, I think on the flip side to a ban, I think we've got to be really careful because wounded animals are very, very, very dangerous.
Speaker 1:Some animals are dangerous when they're not wounded. Hypopotamus is notoriously dangerous. Hippopotamus, is that the correct Hang on, let's ask a marine biologist what's the question Hippopotamuses or hippopotamia? Okay, hippopotamuses, I think. Thank you very much, adam, I appreciate it. Yeah, dr Ellen Coombs, yeah, here we go On the podcast. I mean I wasn't. Yeah, I mean that assertion slash slightly wanky statement wasn't necessarily saying that animals that are not wounded are not dangerous. It's just that wounded animals can be dangerous. Yeah, don't engage with my nonsense. Keep teaching your trainer for a while.
Speaker 1:So, for the roundabout way of saying, villa are going to be coming out wanting to make a statement and, on the basis of last season, you couldn't pick many better teams than Everson to want to do that at home too. So, but We'd go with Tamarut under 11s would have put them all positions. Yeah. And the other problem is that Villa signed somebody today, so obviously he's for the score. Yeah, anyone that anyone of their team knows has had testicular cancer and three broken legs and hasn't scored since the 17s. Yeah, like they'll score. That's a one or one player. Yeah, that's what I mean.
Speaker 1:So booked on the flip side of that, ben does it. You're right. You know we're going into that game with a lot of confidence because you know we were absolutely brilliant against Fulham and that sort of approach to that game, you know in some ways, you know in some way suits us because you know we can sit back and try and absorb some pressure at times, but we are obviously capable of catching them out and trying to win the ball high as well. So it'll be a tricky game. Shall we do.
Speaker 1:Let's do predictions. What do you all show predictions? I think we're going to draw one-one, ben. That was going to be my prediction as well. So I'm going to go for a one-nil-eviton win. I'm going to go for a one-nil-eviton win as well, because I can't bring myself to be pessimistic. Awesome, I'm not going to ask whether we've got anything else because we've got to go to a baseball game. So we need to wrap up this little show. What I do actually have one more thing, even though I did that Before this, but yeah, no, it is worth noting and the other important game that is happening on Sunday is that the Lionesses are in the World Cup final against Spain.
Speaker 1:So huge congratulations to them for making it that far, and we will be up at 6am on Sunday morning to watch and cheer them on. It will hopefully be England's first World Cup win since 1966. Yeah, I watched the semi-final against Australia. They were really good, yeah, very good, coming to get peaking at the right time for sure. So I'm super excited about that. Awesome. Good to see you both, gus. Great to have you be part of this. The dog just looked at me, ellen. Dr Elvin Kermis, thank you for your help with pluralization of hippopotamus. That was essential. Stay well, stay safe. Follow us on Apple Podcasts, spotify, wherever you get your podcasts. That's where we are. Our Twitter slash X slash, whatever the fuck he's calling it this week Account is in the show notes and, yeah, have a great time. Stay safe, stay well and we'll be back next week.